Originally Posted by mainlineAF

I hate pilots. Constant dong measuring.

Originally Posted by jcountry

ALPA is horrible. They allow limitless corruption and crookedness.

Originally Posted by deus ex machina

The APA is more often than not in negotiations so the dues is more often than not 1.5%... ALPA is 1.95% You get what you pay for.

The APA does not have a Major Contingency Fund. They do not have the political and economic resources to strike. That is why they got their clocked cleaned with Clinton and the PEB. Lot's of mis information out there.. with people thinking otherwise..

The APA does not have the Econ and Financial Analysis muscle to negotiate an industry leading contract...

There was a time, in the name of unionism, that ALPA provided E&FA to the APA for free... the APA loved that sweet milk for free..

ALPA then created a services company and started billing APA...

Last year the APA agreed to take steps to see if a ALPA/APA merger was viable. The APA failed to do what it said it would do... So ALPA did what it said it would do.. cancel the contract services agreement.

This was after the BOS/NYC reps slammed ALPA publicly and all of that drama.

Now the APA doesn't have the best resources to get the best contract.

Thus, the APA is once again setting itself up for a less than industry standard contract for which United and Delta will not only not be able to 'jack up the house' but will have to negotiate against. At a min, if the APA is going to use DAL/UAL contracts as negotiation leverage then they are obligated to provide a contract that DAL/UAL can use to 'jack up the house'

If you notice... the APA is always a day late and a dollar short. After ALPA does something, they follow up, acting like it was their idea. The APA press releases are all bark and no bite...

A recent example was the APA's manufactured Capt Pizza Delivery dude media sensation that went viral.. GMAFB...

If you look at the APA's FB page, during the Deny NAI protest in Washington DC.. the APA actually took ALPA's signage and turned up the ALPA logo.. (may 13, 2016) which is a classic representation of what the APA does.. ALPA organizes, pays for and executes, then the APA shows up and tries to make it look like their own...

What is sad is... if the APA joined ALPA they would be a formidable force within ALPA... to the point they could control ALPA quickly... that is the internal political side...

On the outside though is an inferiority complex that the APA pilots think they are contractually equal to Delta and United... when in reality they make less on many levels...

So obviously pride is more important that pay, work rules, benefits and retirement....

Originally Posted by jcountry

We are better off fixing APA internally.

ALPA is horrible. They allow limitless corruption and crookedness.

Originally Posted by B757200ER

Agree 100%. ALPA is corrupt, disreputable and will not only sell you out to the highest bidder to cut a deal, they'll send you C.O.D.

Originally Posted by jcountry

We are better off fixing APA internally.

ALPA is horrible. They allow limitless corruption and crookedness.

We will have the opportunity to fix a LOT of what’s wrong with APA very soon.

Vote wisely

Originally Posted by Flytolive

Please give us some examples of this corruption so we all can judge if you are yet another delusional know-nothing or not completely full of shiite.

Originally Posted by B757200ER

Ha! Let me guess---you're a brand-new pilot at AA who is a millennial! You probably worshipped ALPA at your regional job, right? Ok, I'll do my best to educate you:

ALPA, over many decades, has sold out pilot groups they considered sacrificial. In 1983, they sold out striking Continental pilots who walked out over reduced pay & benefits; they were replaced by 2000+ scabs, many of which are still at UNICAL (UA/CO) today, and were allowed to join ALPA ---even though they crossed an ALPA picket line. In 1988, Eastern was losing money and were watching assets like computer res system, A-300/DC-10 aircraft transferred to CAL while EAL got no funds for these assets; EAL pilots struck over this and were on the picket line for many months. ALPA was powerless, and essentially recommended those striking pilots find other jobs.

In 1999, ALPA was politicking for FedEx to rejoin ALPA after they left in '93 to form their own in-house union, the FPA. Fred Smith, CEO of FedEx was opposed to his pilots rejoining ALPA, so the new ALPA President, Duane Woerth, asked Smith if there was anything he could do to get Smith to drop his objection to his pilots rejoining ALPA. Smith relayed how FedEx was lobbying for the new massive US Post Office contract, which was up for bid by the US government, and Woerth committed to help FedEx lobby Congress, the DOT and the OMB to secure that contract for FedEx; but, there was a problem with that, as the current US Mail contract was flown by (3) ALPA carriers at that time, Ryan Int'l, Emery Air Freight and Kitty Hawk. Lobbying for a non-ALPA carrier to replace 3 ALPA carriers? That's ALPA's signature calling card---sacrificing smaller carriers and their pilot members to secure what they perceive as the greater common good----having FedEx's 3500 pilots rejoin and sacrificing only 2000 or so small airline pilots. FedEx got the USPS contract, of course, and each of those 3 ALPA carriers---Ryan/Emery/KittyHawk---all went bankrupt.

In 2001, TWA was purchased by AAL and ALPA (run by Woerth at the time) promised to support TWA pilots in the subsequent pilot seniority integration; instead, he cut a deal secretly behind closed doors with APA and AA's CEO Don Carty to staple 60% of TWA's pilots, and ratio the rest, all with the promise of the combined carrier re-joining ALPA when it was all over. His plan failed, but the integration stuck---and all pilots stapled, even '88 hires, were furloughed after 9-11-2001. APA protected even the most junior new-hire probationary pilot---a guy named BD White---who wasn't even hired, had no seniority number yet, and hadn't started training---when the TWA buyout was announced. He was never furloughed, and he has APA to thank for that.

I'm sure USAir or AWA pilots have their own stories about ALPA and their favoritism, or their horrible misrepresentation during their merger back in 2007, but I'll leave that to them as I wasn't there.

I do know this: ALPA is no more than an exclusive, discriminating country club, who will never represent their members properly. If I have a choice---I vote we at the New AAL---remain represented by APA.

(I've been a member of APA, ALPA, IBT and 2 in-house Unions, btw)

Originally Posted by B757200ER

Ha! Let me guess---you're a brand-new pilot at AA who is a millennial! You probably worshipped ALPA at your regional job, right? Ok, I'll do my best to educate you:

ALPA, over many decades, has sold out pilot groups they considered sacrificial. In 1983, they sold out striking Continental pilots who walked out over reduced pay & benefits; they were replaced by 2000+ scabs, many of which are still at UNICAL (UA/CO) today, and were allowed to join ALPA ---even though they crossed an ALPA picket line. In 1988, Eastern was losing money and were watching assets like computer res system, A-300/DC-10 aircraft transferred to CAL while EAL got no funds for these assets; EAL pilots struck over this and were on the picket line for many months. ALPA was powerless, and essentially recommended those striking pilots find other jobs.

In 1999, ALPA was politicking for FedEx to rejoin ALPA after they left in '93 to form their own in-house union, the FPA. Fred Smith, CEO of FedEx was opposed to his pilots rejoining ALPA, so the new ALPA President, Duane Woerth, asked Smith if there was anything he could do to get Smith to drop his objection to his pilots rejoining ALPA. Smith relayed how FedEx was lobbying for the new massive US Post Office contract, which was up for bid by the US government, and Woerth committed to help FedEx lobby Congress, the DOT and the OMB to secure that contract for FedEx; but, there was a problem with that, as the current US Mail contract was flown by (3) ALPA carriers at that time, Ryan Int'l, Emery Air Freight and Kitty Hawk. Lobbying for a non-ALPA carrier to replace 3 ALPA carriers? That's ALPA's signature calling card---sacrificing smaller carriers and their pilot members to secure what they perceive as the greater common good----having FedEx's 3500 pilots rejoin and sacrificing only 2000 or so small airline pilots. FedEx got the USPS contract, of course, and each of those 3 ALPA carriers---Ryan/Emery/KittyHawk---all went bankrupt.

In 2001, TWA was purchased by AAL and ALPA (run by Woerth at the time) promised to support TWA pilots in the subsequent pilot seniority integration; instead, he cut a deal secretly behind closed doors with APA and AA's CEO Don Carty to staple 60% of TWA's pilots, and ratio the rest, all with the promise of the combined carrier re-joining ALPA when it was all over. His plan failed, but the integration stuck---and all pilots stapled, even '88 hires, were furloughed after 9-11-2001. APA protected even the most junior new-hire probationary pilot---a guy named BD White---who wasn't even hired, had no seniority number yet, and hadn't started training---when the TWA buyout was announced. He was never furloughed, and he has APA to thank for that.

I'm sure USAir or AWA pilots have their own stories about ALPA and their favoritism, or their horrible misrepresentation during their merger back in 2007, but I'll leave that to them as I wasn't there.

I do know this: ALPA is no more than an exclusive, discriminating country club, who will never represent their members properly. If I have a choice---I vote we at the New AAL---remain represented by APA.

(I've been a member of APA, ALPA, IBT and 2 in-house Unions, btw)