It's Time... For ALPA.
 

ALPA is running laps around APA.

APA has head in the sand and the bubble it operates in shows they are unable to do what ALPA pilot groups have done.

The time to switch is here. We need to merge with ALPA.

Get involved with the conversation here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1777115569177879/

...and no, I don't want to hear your lame excuse about how "ALPA was terrible at my regional."

Biggest issue is who is our union reps. Yes ALPA would give us better resources, but if we still have the same corrupt, unimaginable reps we will be in the same boat.

I don't care how well you think your rep is or what they have done for you in the past, we need new blood in there, people who are willing to think outside the box, people who aren't selling us short to the company.

Agree with a few of your points.... but there is something fundamentally different about the structure of an ALPA MEC/LEC versus APA's BOD that bullies their President.

The old reps needs to go. The new, younger BTL reps understand the real issues, but until the older reps are gone (particularly the NY, ORD, LAX.

I am convinced these furloughs would have been avoided like UAL and DAL had APA's BOD agreed to even consider outside of the box thinking.

ALPA's structure and communication would be a huge step up from APA.

The .5% assessment to help furloughs with medical bennies barely passed. ALPA might be an improvement, but you’re kidding yourself if you think Delta or *especially* United’s deal would have been acceptable to this pilot group.

Maybe it’s because I don’t have to fly with DFW based pilots, but I had previously given this group way too much credit. After seeing what happened with the assessment, I’ve come to realize our furloughed pilots were doomed from the start.

​​​​​​ This is my feeling as well. Before I was furloughed the majority of people I flew with had the "I was furloughed, so get over it attitude". They were adamantly against any kind of relief to save jobs. Including the .5%. Totally absurd, folks making hundreds of thousands dollars aren't willing to give up .5%.

This pilot group is really 3 or 4 groups. LAA. LUS/AWA and anybody new. Least important by far is "new".

Reality check guys, ALPA national didn't do anything to my knowledge at the individual airline level, that was all up to the MEC reps and staff, so somewhat personality driven (union & management). Changing union brands may not change the local leadership much, or management at all.

ALPA national did do some good lobbying for CARES, etc.

Whether it would or wouldnt have is not the question. It was not subject to member ratification. It wasnt even truly surveyed, and then after the fact EF says oh, yeah, let's survey the people left on property about how good a job APA did? The BoD is not nearly accountable enough to the membership as a whole and hides behind closed door meetings so they cant be. Band the BoD to different segments of the senority list and you would have a more accurate representation of the memberships desires at the table. Make their proposals fully visible to the membership before they vote on them. Make the board minutes accessible to the membership show we truly know what was said, what direction was given, and what truly happened. Else they should be assessed on the results of what they delivered, land compare to their peers, they failed to deliver.

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You can blame APA all you want, but if the company doesn’t want to play ball, then there is not much they can do.

(I work for a ALPA represented airline...no dog in the fight)

I’d suggest calling your reps. Ask questions. They may fill in some blanks.

Might want to consider USAPA ... just sayin ;)

Sounds like socialism to me.

sounded like unionism to over 90% of the pilots at United and Delta

Does APA have LECs for each domicile to represent each seniority block?

Is unionism like Marxism?

wouldn't Marxism being the state owned the airlines, pays all pilots, rampers, gate agents and Executives the same amount, and seniority would not be used for bidding?

or we could go the other way and institute things like each individual bargaining for themselves, good schedules awarded to those who are in cahoots with management. And pilots who get too expensive are the ones who get furloughed when times are tough.

it’s a safety net for those who got kicked to the curb, stop acting like it’s the end of the world

Unionism if you volunteer to do it (union membership and associated employment is voluntary).

Socialism if the government makes you do it.

You mean slightly over 50%

more than 90% of the pilots at each of those 2 airlines voted in favor of a 1% assessment to fund healthcare for furloughs.

Atooraya seems to think it is socialism/Marxism to asses .5% of AA pilots pay to fund healthcare for their furloughs.

So it sounds like Communism? What is it when the have nots beg off the teet of the haves?


All I’m saying is get another job furloughed pilots. Our economy provides a ton of new jobs for you. I worked hard for my seniority here at American and I don’t need communist ideals like ALPA to siphon off my hard earned money to pay for others. That is literally socialism.

I edited my post. Please don’t try to censor my speech because I’m a flow through and I’m on the list, tyvm.

Oh so you hate your fellow pilots, cool

"Find another job". Yeah no problem. There's 100k jobs all over the place.. I'm willing to accept less, but so far, nationwide 2 job offers. Both are ****. I'm willing to move. 2 degrees. I'm all about the American dream and picking myself up, right now, the job market sucks.

And ATC in the US would be....?

this guy is silencing dissenting opinions just like a leftist!

The civil service is very socialistic in outlook and inherent nature. I've said many times before that government employees should not be allowed unions, or at least not the kind with any self-help authority. Civil service is about *service*, not self-help... if the gov doesn't pay enough, market forces will fix that.

In private sector everybody is in it to make money, and unions came about as an obvious, necessary foil to the abuses of the lopsided power balance between workers and management. Unions are largely OBE in the modern white-collar world, since workers have access to information and mobility necessary to freely follow market forces. They are still relevant in professions (mostly blue, a few white collar) which are seniority based, since we have no mobility once locked into a seniority system.

It's Time... For ALPA.
 

Is your issue solely with ALPA or does your disdain for unions cross over to APA as well?


ALPA National does provide resources, institutional knowledge, and tools to the MEC, LEC, and individual members. I’ve personally been represented by a ALPA national attorney on a personal grievance that the MEC attorney couldn’t have because lack of knowledge in that specific issue.. And now I’m currently availing myself to ALPA Aeromedical. Again, this all at the individual level.

So yes, absolutely yes, ALPA National does do much at the individual airline and member level. If you ever become an ALPA status representative, they send you to rep school. There you learn of all the vast things ALPA does behind the scenes. I wish they would show that part of the presentation to all new ALPA members so they wouldn’t have the same misconception that many like you have, (at no fault of your own).

The ALPA umbrella provides a lot of services to individual pilots, maybe better than what APA provides? I don't know.

In context of this discussion, ALPA national isn't going to come in and "fix" your MEC or straighten out your relationship with management, or negotiate a better covid deal for you. I can only think of one time in recent decades where national intervened in MEC contract negotiations by declining to approve a contract at a bottom-feeder regional.

I like ALPA, no complaints at the major, but it might not fix what ails you right now. I'm not saying it's not a good long-term move, but only APA pilots can make that call. If AA gets into an M&A at a disadvantage with the M&A partner then it would probably be best to be ALPA since all the likely partners are ALPA, and they do have some rules for SLI.

The context I thought this was about is a merger of APA and ALPA. Obviously if that were to happen, it doesn’t change the makeup of the pilots who work for AA. So with that established, what would the merger do for AA pilots? That’s what I was getting at in response to your comment about what has ALPA done for individual MECs. My answer is true and it’s true whether it’s a major airline or a regional airline. My two examples I gave were when I was at a regional airline!

As for merger possibilities, I think you put too much emphasis on APA being better off being ALPA in a merger with another ALPA airline. In that scenario, it’s the only time that ALPA National doesn’t get involved. So you wouldn’t get the benefit of the resources and knowledge from ALPA in that instance. The merger would done in accordance with federal law which basically says to negotiate, mediate, and arbitrate to come to a fair and equitable solution. They wouldn’t be tied to the three specific items required to be used in an ALPA merger although they would probably be used anyway.

Not only is ALPA's structure better, with ALPA there is better transparency on how our dues money is spent. Right now, the "Section 6" 1/2% dues assessment is being spent on items other than a new collective bargaining agreement. The C/B's are very clear and written in plane language; The .5% S6 assessment is for spending on a new CBA. Not LOA's or any other items. Just a new CBA.

APA is also hoarding cash via the S6 .5% in case of a bankruptcy filing by the company. Rumor has it that the last bk cost the APA over $30 million so they are hoarding cash.

Any use of the S6 .5% dues assessment is a violation of the APA's Constitution and Bylaws.

There is no way they could get away with this malfeasance under ALPA.

Furthermore, the APA spends an unholy amount of money on legal. It retains many layers and law firms all across the country and costs us millions of dollars. Under ALPA, our legal bills would be substantially lower.

Does that matter to line pilots? Maybe not. Dues are dues, and ALPA is 2%.

However, with the large pilot group of AA, and a merger bringing in assets of over $20 million in cash, and $30 million in investments the pilots of AA would have great influence within ALPA. There is the possibility of lowering dues if that is the most important issue for switching unions.

1.85% now. Slowly but surely coming down.

Wow.

Thank you.

AA pilots are now paying more in dues than ALPA. APA dues are currently 1% base, .5% assessment for a new CBA (laughable in this environment but they are still collecting it) and .5% for furloughed pilots medical coverage.

both UA and DL voted a 1% assessment for this on top of their 1.85% dues FYI

How many are furloughed at DL and UA?

Touché

filler

Not trying to engage in any debate or arguments.

I truly believe AA pilots will be better served with ALPA.

The numbers of AA pilots will guarantee leadership positions within the national ranks. The money APA brings to the table is significant (in dues dollars).

I’d love to have AA back in ALPA, I think they’d be welcome with open arms and be a tremendous asset nationally. All are welcome.

UA ALPA suspended the 1% furlough fund assessment effective 11/1 due to no furloughs through May 2021 with the passing of the LOA.