Actually I know exactly the background being in contract compliance at the time.

And by shortly after you mean more or less than a year? And what about the FO.

It’s Envoy.

Once again, thread drift, back on track.

Don’t keep us in suspense! What happened in ORD? Never heard about it on AvHerald or anywhere else.
If anything else it could be a good learning experience for all of us.

Sounds like there's some weird quirk on that plane about shutting down #2 before the apu is fully started.... can knock out nw steering and braking.

But anyway, talk about that in the envoy thread. I'm sorry I brought the H-youth into this, just wanted an easy clap back at coochie

.......
 

Because I worked at that sh!thole of a place for many years back in the bad old days.

They fired some CA. off of the ATR for trying to repair an overhead bin, on his next turn into the hub. I think it wouldn't stay shut or some dam thing and he wound up breaking it trying to fix it.


I guess we had faster cockroaches back there then.

So much this. They made it clear on the first day of ground school that you were expendable... plenty of other guys willing to do your job for less.

Did you guys see the JetBlue AIP?

APA out here providing expense free 0 line reserves for the company while they're negotiating 2% raises and no furloughs till May 2022



https://static1.squarespace.com/stat.../?format=1500w

I spoke with a JB dude. His take was it helps them out in the short term but it hands the keys to all the WB flying to AA permanently.

What did this guy say? Honest question. Since, full language hasnt been negotiated yet or any details released. Curious what his take was.

From what I understand, the scope was (permanently) loosened/changed in the current codeshare they accepted to mitigate furloughs until May. He assumed the changes in the new AIP would be similar.

ah, gotcha. Thanks

Which is a win for the pilots if you believe they never had plans for heavy flying anyway.

My point is that other shops are getting work done and our union is not

It's inverted and pulling for the dirt

Elaborate


filler

Misery loves company. There are no details yet.

I believe he’s talking about APA.

Makes sense. Questionable strategy for sure.

Nothing was permanent. It was only approved until May 1 in the current LOA.

The code share with AA expired in May?

LOA 12 which prevented furlough through May granted B6 a one time scope relief so they sign the AA codeshare. Jetblue's cba had a stipulation where Jetblue couldn't add or renew codeshares if block hours are less then x amount.

So permanent assuming you don’t drop block.

No permanent changes to cba. Jetblue can't freely codeshare now.

The codeshare with AA continues past May 1 if your block hours don’t drop. Right?

correct It will continue regardless of block hours since relief was given.

the butthurt is still strong in this one...

Thanks

Filler

When will we start winning? How many decades has it been? Serious question.

How many chances do we plan on giving? Every day lost is costing us all.

Or is our mindset to only keep signing industry trailing long and short term agreements?

that is allowed in the CBA. So no relief would be needed at that point. So not permanent relief. If block hours are decreasing year over year then they could not amend or renew AA codeshare past May 1.

And your comment adds nothing to the discussion.

APA has three months now to save pilot jobs.

No furloughs

I think APA has made it pretty clear, they don’t really have any interest in mitigating furloughs.

thats sick

I agree, I wish we could have gotten a similar program to United or Delta, but APA doesn’t want to.

Prior to the SLI they had been working on a one list plan. If that had been completed back in 2013, nobody currently at AA would have been furloughed. Now, it would take fences and be more complicated, but with the fence set to vanish once the last new hire after DOS moves up from RJ's the fences would go away and you'd have one list, and never face furlough after having 5-10 years already working for AAG.

It's an absolute disgrace that a guy can do 10-11 years at AAG/Envoy, transfer to AAG/AA and then find himself furloughed

APA needs to think longer term. This will happen again someday. Fix it now.

the cujo first time i heard you wake up and smell the aa dong. Pilots that live and breate envoy /aa continue to get **** on over and over. The culture is toxic and needs to be overhauled dougie and apa mec need to go for any change to occur

how would this work with someone who was hired off the street at AA this year? Would a Jan 2020 hired off the street be furloughed, but the 10 year Envoy flow in that same class would flow back?

has happened before flow back

is it mandatory to flow or is it a choice that you can turn down?

Why is it than envoy pilots are American pilots but not the other two WO? More strenuous hiring standards I suppose?

Why? Envoy pilots are not American pilots. Horizon pilots don't fly for Alaska. Endeavor pilots don't fly for Delta.

And how would this one list work? As an example, could the 20 year Envoy/AE pilot suddenly decide to become a 787 captain at American and outbid everyone with their seniority on that one list? Should that 10-11 year Envoy pilot start at AA at 10-11 year pay? Or would it only apply to furloughs when the one year mainline AA pilot gets furloughed before the brand new, new hire?

This is one of the issues with flows and parent companies, this sense of entitlement that an Envoy pilot should have special privileges over others because they flew for a regional before moving up to mainline. Seems to be a lot of entitlement attitude from the Envoy group (not all of them). Furloughs are a reality with airlines, I'm furloughed right now. Seems you want to take all the reward of moving up to mainline without taking any of the risk. Can't have it both ways.

Who signs at the bottom of the pay check, American or Envoy? That is the employer, even if it is a wholly owned subsidiary.