has happened before flow back

 

is it mandatory to flow or is it a choice that you can turn down?

 

Why is it than envoy pilots are American pilots but not the other two WO? More strenuous hiring standards I suppose?

 

Why? Envoy pilots are not American pilots. Horizon pilots don't fly for Alaska. Endeavor pilots don't fly for Delta.

And how would this one list work? As an example, could the 20 year Envoy/AE pilot suddenly decide to become a 787 captain at American and outbid everyone with their seniority on that one list? Should that 10-11 year Envoy pilot start at AA at 10-11 year pay? Or would it only apply to furloughs when the one year mainline AA pilot gets furloughed before the brand new, new hire?

This is one of the issues with flows and parent companies, this sense of entitlement that an Envoy pilot should have special privileges over others because they flew for a regional before moving up to mainline. Seems to be a lot of entitlement attitude from the Envoy group (not all of them). Furloughs are a reality with airlines, I'm furloughed right now. Seems you want to take all the reward of moving up to mainline without taking any of the risk. Can't have it both ways.

 

Who signs at the bottom of the pay check, American or Envoy? That is the employer, even if it is a wholly owned subsidiary.

 

But Envoy is THE original H youth.... they have a special seat at our table

 

17 pages in and how much closer are we to actually getting a vote for ALPA?

This is something that seriously needs to be in the works.

 

I remember having the One List discussion at AE around 2000. APA: “NOPE!” Of course it came back up in ‘01-‘02. APA: “YES!” BUT, I had it explained to me that it would “obviously” be a staple and all mainline furloughees would essentially push the entire AE seniority list to the street...BUT this was a good thing because when the recalls started, all former AE pilots would be returning to AA. *HOWEVER* (and this was my favorite part), once everyone was recalled AA would still be able to hire off the street pilots that would be SENIOR to the former AE pilots because “How is it fair to have a fella do a career in the military and then come to American Airlines, and have no option but to fly in the right seat of a SAAB340?”. So THAT “proposal” was obviously put in the trash and the whip-saw continued. I still laugh when I think about the cahones of the guy explaining it to me.

 

One list. All AA pilots are ahead in seniority of all Envoy pilots. Then the 1800 pilots hired this year and last year would flow back and displace the top 1800 pilots at envoy.

street hires at AA are automatically higher seniority than the 25 year career guy at Envoy, to include flow back rights.

is that what you’re asking for?

 

Is Envoy the only wholly owned airline with flow through because the pilots there are subject to more strenuous hiring standards because they are really essentially already American Airlines pilots???