View Poll Results: Will AA declare bankruptcy?
Yes
219
70.65%
No
91
29.35%
Voters: 310. You may not vote on this poll
Bankruptcy
12-27-2022 | 01:46 PM
#1382
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,327
Likes: 77
Thanks, but I’m not really new here. I used to post a lot years ago when I was at eagle. I’ve been lurking for a while but didn’t know my login anymore so I didn’t post. Just decided to make a new one finally. I have lots of thoughts but just shared the ones that seemed relevant to the thread. Day to day life at AA has noticeably changed since Covid, in my opinion. I know it is cliche to say it is like a big regional or a credit card company that uses planes to trap its customers. But there are reasons those cliches exist and persist. I feel strongly enough about it too post what I posted. It is only my opinion, I’m sure not all agree with me. But if I were a pilot applying to both AA and DAL I would want them to know what I and others think about AA. Delta management knows what they’re doing with this offer, and they know how much lower AA was trying to give us. Why didn’t they just offer AA plus a little bit? Why did they triple the value? They know AA can’t afford to pay down debt fast enough and offer a similarly valued deal. AA knows this too, which is why they are hemming and hawing about paying up now. They also know we don’t have the pilot unity to stand up to them. I just can’t see us getting a deal with nearly the same value as Delta’s, ever. Add in the profit sharing and in my opinion, a new hire will make substantially more money over the course of their career at Delta.
You have valid concerns. AA’s management team is pretty much incompetent, although Southwest’s appears worse right now. Didn’t think that would be possible. Delta has the best management team by far, but that doesn’t mean they love their pilot group. They just recognize that they can make more money by cooperating than by fighting the pilots, aka Parker/Isom/etc. AA would be a much better place with competent management. Will that ever happen?
I tend to think the “giant regional” complaint is a bit of a stretch. I’ve never flown more than 3 legs a day; and have done so maybe twice in the past 4-5 years. I don’t know of any regionals that fly to LHR, CDG, Tokyo, SYD, etc.
If you’re that unhappy at AA, you should definitely apply elsewhere. What keeps you at AA? For me, it’s living in a domicile, being able to drive to work, and making a ton of money picking up easy turns and broken up 1-1s. I’ll likely switch to WB FO soon and my game will change to sitting reserve from home. I’ve considered leaving, but the seniority cut and commuting make very little sense.
12-27-2022 | 07:27 PM
#1384
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,329
Likes: 4
From: A320 CA
Thanks, but I’m not really new here. I used to post a lot years ago when I was at eagle. I’ve been lurking for a while but didn’t know my login anymore so I didn’t post. Just decided to make a new one finally. I have lots of thoughts but just shared the ones that seemed relevant to the thread. Day to day life at AA has noticeably changed since Covid, in my opinion. I know it is cliche to say it is like a big regional or a credit card company that uses planes to trap its customers. But there are reasons those cliches exist and persist. I feel strongly enough about it too post what I posted. It is only my opinion, I’m sure not all agree with me. But if I were a pilot applying to both AA and DAL I would want them to know what I and others think about AA. Delta management knows what they’re doing with this offer, and they know how much lower AA was trying to give us. Why didn’t they just offer AA plus a little bit? Why did they triple the value? They know AA can’t afford to pay down debt fast enough and offer a similarly valued deal. AA knows this too, which is why they are hemming and hawing about paying up now. They also know we don’t have the pilot unity to stand up to them. I just can’t see us getting a deal with nearly the same value as Delta’s, ever. Add in the profit sharing and in my opinion, a new hire will make substantially more money over the course of their career at Delta.
We haven’t even begun to negotiate again since turning down the AIP and since DAL got its AIP. So, of course there is no offer yet. Give it some time. Meanwhile get your app in at DAL and UAL/FDX/UPS. It will likely take 6 months to get the apps in get an interview and a class date. By then you’ll know a lot more about where we (APA) stand in terms of a potential TA and can make a good decision to jump ship.
Don’t even consider your time at the WO or time here in the equation, those are sunk costs. Just do an honest comparative analysis. This is actually a great opportunity for you. Either we get a decent contract…or you jump to a better airline and don’t look back.
12-27-2022 | 08:07 PM
#1385
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,601
Likes: 0
From: CRJ FO
I will actually. I’ll be sub 1,000 at DAL if I am fortunate to have the health/interest to fly to 65. I would have had great seniority at AA but they started hiring 200+ /month during the post-Covid recovery and I wouldn’t have flowed for several additional months compared to being hired off the street at DAL. So it was about a wash when I did the math. And given the seniority wash I figured I’d take the numerous better things about the contract at DAL than stay to flow for a short term bonus. And comparing QOL/pay with my friends at both AA and UAL with similar seniority, the grass has certainly been greener so far.
12-27-2022 | 08:16 PM
#1386
Gets Everyday Off
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 6,995
Likes: 1
From: Fully Retired
And, Chris, regardless of which you and your colleagues went with, you will have an incredible career. Even throwing in a couple of black swan events and a furlough, you will have a great career.
12-28-2022 | 11:12 AM
#1389
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,088
Likes: 0
We haven’t even begun to negotiate again since turning down the AIP and since DAL got its AIP. So, of course there is no offer yet. Give it some time. Meanwhile get your app in at DAL and UAL/FDX/UPS. It will likely take 6 months to get the apps in get an interview and a class date. By then you’ll know a lot more about where we (APA) stand in terms of a potential TA and can make a good decision to jump ship.
Don’t even consider your time at the WO or time here in the equation, those are sunk costs. Just do an honest comparative analysis. This is actually a great opportunity for you. Either we get a decent contract…or you jump to a better airline and don’t look back.
Don’t even consider your time at the WO or time here in the equation, those are sunk costs. Just do an honest comparative analysis. This is actually a great opportunity for you. Either we get a decent contract…or you jump to a better airline and don’t look back.
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