View Poll Results: Will AA declare bankruptcy?
Yes



219
70.65%
No



91
29.35%
Voters: 310. You may not vote on this poll
Bankruptcy
#811
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,550
Likes: 146
The honeymoon is almost over for everyone.
The Feds printers have run out of ink. The market is currently indicating a potential economic recession in our future. If that happens, it’s over for AA”G”. I heard you boys are ready to start hiring like bonkers, that’s cute, what airline hasn’t been known to hire pilots up until the day they went BK or started furloughing to cover their bottom line???
You boys have too much debt and even more incompetence in the managerial department to survive even the slightest recession. This time you won’t get bailed out either. CEO’s out, that’s got BK written all over it.
I’d suggest you get your apps out, and plan accordingly. But for now enjoy the honeymoon before the inevitable divorce.
The Feds printers have run out of ink. The market is currently indicating a potential economic recession in our future. If that happens, it’s over for AA”G”. I heard you boys are ready to start hiring like bonkers, that’s cute, what airline hasn’t been known to hire pilots up until the day they went BK or started furloughing to cover their bottom line???
You boys have too much debt and even more incompetence in the managerial department to survive even the slightest recession. This time you won’t get bailed out either. CEO’s out, that’s got BK written all over it.
I’d suggest you get your apps out, and plan accordingly. But for now enjoy the honeymoon before the inevitable divorce.
#813
In a land of unicorns
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 7,070
Likes: 102
From: Whale FO
American does not have 21 billion in cash, not even close. They ended 2021 with 273 million of unrestricted cash and if you add restricted cash, total of 408 million.
They ended 2021 with 15.8 billion of liquidity. The problem is, they had to borrow 6 billion more to reach that number. They now have liabilities including debt of almost 60 billion dollars. That's why their shareholder deficit is 7.3 billion, so their shareholders lost almost half a billion since 2020, because that increased "liquidity" is just added borrowing, not actual cash.
Their operating loss, excluding all the fluff, was 1 billion dollars in 2021. Add 1.8 billion in interest payments, and you can quickly see how much more revenue they need before they can start paying back that debt. Finding almost 3 billion of profit is not going to be easy. Until that happens, AAG will keep hemorrhaging money. Having 15 billion in liquidity doesn't help when it's less than half of what they borrowed. And before you say "but we have new airplanes!", the liabilities exceed the assets by over 7 billion dollars. As a matter of fact, the whole fleet of AAG is only worth 37.8 billion dollars. Every single airplane. With current and non-current debt at 38 billion, you can see the new airplanes argument is pretty weak.
AAG might be too big to fail, I don't believe anyone wants to Ch7 it, but they will have to do something to restructure the airline. The numbers don't lie.
And no, this is not a "get your financial house in order" post, I'm just stating cold hard numbers. Interpret them the way you want.
#814
The honeymoon is almost over for everyone.
The Feds printers have run out of ink. The market is currently indicating a potential economic recession in our future. If that happens, it’s over for AA”G”. I heard you boys are ready to start hiring like bonkers, that’s cute, what airline hasn’t been known to hire pilots up until the day they went BK or started furloughing to cover their bottom line???
You boys have too much debt and even more incompetence in the managerial department to survive even the slightest recession. This time you won’t get bailed out either. CEO’s out, that’s got BK written all over it.
I’d suggest you get your apps out, and plan accordingly. But for now enjoy the honeymoon before the inevitable divorce.
The Feds printers have run out of ink. The market is currently indicating a potential economic recession in our future. If that happens, it’s over for AA”G”. I heard you boys are ready to start hiring like bonkers, that’s cute, what airline hasn’t been known to hire pilots up until the day they went BK or started furloughing to cover their bottom line???
You boys have too much debt and even more incompetence in the managerial department to survive even the slightest recession. This time you won’t get bailed out either. CEO’s out, that’s got BK written all over it.
I’d suggest you get your apps out, and plan accordingly. But for now enjoy the honeymoon before the inevitable divorce.
AA may very well declare. If that happens UAL and DL will also declare. The other two won’t be able to compete with the new cost structure of the third. That’s been proven previously.
#815
Let's actually read the financial statement.
American does not have 21 billion in cash, not even close. They ended 2021 with 273 million of unrestricted cash and if you add restricted cash, total of 408 million.
They ended 2021 with 15.8 billion of liquidity. The problem is, they had to borrow 6 billion more to reach that number. They now have liabilities including debt of almost 60 billion dollars. That's why their shareholder deficit is 7.3 billion, so their shareholders lost almost half a billion since 2020, because that increased "liquidity" is just added borrowing, not actual cash.
Their operating loss, excluding all the fluff, was 1 billion dollars in 2021. Add 1.8 billion in interest payments, and you can quickly see how much more revenue they need before they can start paying back that debt. Finding almost 3 billion of profit is not going to be easy. Until that happens, AAG will keep hemorrhaging money. Having 15 billion in liquidity doesn't help when it's less than half of what they borrowed. And before you say "but we have new airplanes!", the liabilities exceed the assets by over 7 billion dollars. As a matter of fact, the whole fleet of AAG is only worth 37.8 billion dollars. Every single airplane. With current and non-current debt at 38 billion, you can see the new airplanes argument is pretty weak.
AAG might be too big to fail, I don't believe anyone wants to Ch7 it, but they will have to do something to restructure the airline. The numbers don't lie.
And no, this is not a "get your financial house in order" post, I'm just stating cold hard numbers. Interpret them the way you want.
American does not have 21 billion in cash, not even close. They ended 2021 with 273 million of unrestricted cash and if you add restricted cash, total of 408 million.
They ended 2021 with 15.8 billion of liquidity. The problem is, they had to borrow 6 billion more to reach that number. They now have liabilities including debt of almost 60 billion dollars. That's why their shareholder deficit is 7.3 billion, so their shareholders lost almost half a billion since 2020, because that increased "liquidity" is just added borrowing, not actual cash.
Their operating loss, excluding all the fluff, was 1 billion dollars in 2021. Add 1.8 billion in interest payments, and you can quickly see how much more revenue they need before they can start paying back that debt. Finding almost 3 billion of profit is not going to be easy. Until that happens, AAG will keep hemorrhaging money. Having 15 billion in liquidity doesn't help when it's less than half of what they borrowed. And before you say "but we have new airplanes!", the liabilities exceed the assets by over 7 billion dollars. As a matter of fact, the whole fleet of AAG is only worth 37.8 billion dollars. Every single airplane. With current and non-current debt at 38 billion, you can see the new airplanes argument is pretty weak.
AAG might be too big to fail, I don't believe anyone wants to Ch7 it, but they will have to do something to restructure the airline. The numbers don't lie.
And no, this is not a "get your financial house in order" post, I'm just stating cold hard numbers. Interpret them the way you want.
American has 15B in cash.
Just a quick google search on current Debt-as of 7/21
AA: 40b
UA: 36b
DL: 29b
Lastly, if AA declares BK I wouldn’t think the pay rates/ contract would be hit. There would be zero chance of recruitment if that were to happen. That’s already an issue across the board.
Last edited by Al Czervik; 01-24-2022 at 01:04 AM.
#816
In a land of unicorns
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 7,070
Likes: 102
From: Whale FO
American has 15B in cash.
Just a quick google search on current Debt-as of 7/21
AA: 40b
UA: 36b
DL: 29b
Lastly, if AA declares BK I wouldn’t think the pay rates/ contract would be hit. There would be zero chance of recruitment if that were to happen. That’s already an issue across the board.
Just a quick google search on current Debt-as of 7/21
AA: 40b
UA: 36b
DL: 29b
Lastly, if AA declares BK I wouldn’t think the pay rates/ contract would be hit. There would be zero chance of recruitment if that were to happen. That’s already an issue across the board.
Total noncurrent liabilities
54,777
Total current liabilities
19,005
That's end of 2021 statement. These numbers are approx. 5 billion higher than end of year 2020.
I also don't think pilot contracts are the first to go. They would spin off WOs and get rid of a lot of fat before they can substantially touch the pilot CBA.
#817
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
From: C17 & 737
Not an economist or anything, but I would like to point out that as we go into an inflationary environment AA may not be in a bad spot so long as it can fix its cash flow. Long term secured debt will become ever more easy to pay off as the currency debases. This is the same reason why mortgage payments turn to peanuts thirty years later. Airlines provide a commodity service that is resistant to inflationary forces (in real terms), as fares will likely have to rise (in nominal terms), meanwhile interest and principals on debt remain constant. Debt can be a blessing and a curse
#818
Liquidity, not cash. Maybe a technicality to some.
Total noncurrent liabilities
54,777
Total current liabilities
19,005
That's end of 2021 statement. These numbers are approx. 5 billion higher than end of year 2020.
I also don't think pilot contracts are the first to go. They would spin off WOs and get rid of a lot of fat before they can substantially touch the pilot CBA.
Total noncurrent liabilities
54,777
Total current liabilities
19,005
That's end of 2021 statement. These numbers are approx. 5 billion higher than end of year 2020.
I also don't think pilot contracts are the first to go. They would spin off WOs and get rid of a lot of fat before they can substantially touch the pilot CBA.
#820
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
The honeymoon is almost over for everyone.
The Feds printers have run out of ink. The market is currently indicating a potential economic recession in our future. If that happens, it’s over for AA”G”. I heard you boys are ready to start hiring like bonkers, that’s cute, what airline hasn’t been known to hire pilots up until the day they went BK or started furloughing to cover their bottom line???
You boys have too much debt and even more incompetence in the managerial department to survive even the slightest recession. This time you won’t get bailed out either. CEO’s out, that’s got BK written all over it.
I’d suggest you get your apps out, and plan accordingly. But for now enjoy the honeymoon before the inevitable divorce.
The Feds printers have run out of ink. The market is currently indicating a potential economic recession in our future. If that happens, it’s over for AA”G”. I heard you boys are ready to start hiring like bonkers, that’s cute, what airline hasn’t been known to hire pilots up until the day they went BK or started furloughing to cover their bottom line???
You boys have too much debt and even more incompetence in the managerial department to survive even the slightest recession. This time you won’t get bailed out either. CEO’s out, that’s got BK written all over it.
I’d suggest you get your apps out, and plan accordingly. But for now enjoy the honeymoon before the inevitable divorce.
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