jstanotherpilot

This is the biggest thing I believe most people fail to realize. A union is only as good as it's leaders and representatives. All the different ALPA carriers have different results when it comes to their negotiations, some being more successful than others, and it's mainly because of how strong and forward thinking and willing to put up a fight their representatives/leaders are. The problem with APA isn't that it's APA... it's about choosing the right representatives who you think will fight for the things you want.

Beewatcher2

Delta and United have very similar contracts and work rules. Both are currently much better places to work than AA. I would gladly pay 1% if I was an AA pilot...

biigD

I hear this a lot, but nobody can seem to tell me how slapping an ALPA logo to the front of our union will suddenly fix our issues, which aren't necessarily all contractual anyway. We have a fractured pilot group that can't pull in the same direction, and we have a management team that doesn't have much interest in running a good airline. ALPA isn't suddenly going to make these things better - especially when you have the same folks at the helm.

Like I said before - I'm open to the switch, but it's going to take more than simply saying "well, those guys have ALPA and look how they're doing!" It's a lot more complicated than that. Lay it out - what are we going to *do* differently going forward that'll make things better? Put a plan together I can rally behind, and I'll happily vote accordingly.

greatmovieistar

Then what will it take lol? Talk about Stockholm Syndrome. Any change is good change at this point because APA is that bad.

Are you going to pause negotiations again due to "TTS"(... cough... cough pick up more premium trips)?

Salukidawg

I’ve been apart of two independent unions and ALPA during my 22 year career and I can say without a doubt that when the IACP became ALPA, the only thing that changed is that ALPA became the owner of our union office building and all of the funds that our independent union had squirreled away over the years became ALPA’s funds. Our dues went from being 1% to 2% overnight, and the exact same leadership we had at the IACP were the exact same leadership we had under ALPA. Nothing changed except our dues. I pray that SWAPA of which I’m apart of now, never entertains going down the ALPA path and I also hope APA stays independent as well. ALPA is just a name, the individuals that run the local MEC’s at each Airline are what make or break the union.

Margaritaville

United and Delta are doing better because they've had a contract cycle since the bankruptcy contract. AA hasn't, just the JCBA. Their mergers were consummated a lot earlier too.

But yeah the problem is the contract, not the union administering it. clean house and get better reps. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

ACEssXfer

Not a factual statement.

Margaritaville

I love the forums. Someone can just shout WRONG! and leave the room.

Since you couldn't elaborate, let me. To recall an MEC in ALPA the LEC members have to vote to recall. The pilots can't recall them directly. Since the LEC members usually support the MEC, that means you need to recall the LEC first. To do that a pilot needs to write a resolution for recall, and get it on the agenda in time. They need to pack the room with as many sympathetic pilots as they can, and have each pilot bring the maximum amount of proxies, since the MEC supporters will be doing the same thing. You need to stand up and state your concerns and have a floor debate. Then there's a majority vote. If the resolution passes, a recall vote is held. now it's campaigning and mud slinging. If the LEC member is recalled a sympathetic LEC member is usually placed. Repeat this process in several LECs. Now they can do the same at the MEC level to recall the MEC. It's a long convoluted process. The easiest way to get rid of a rogue MEC is just wait until the next election cycle. ALPA C&BLs are written to protect the MEC Chairman.

Does APA do it that way?

sanicom3205

You know it’s bad when I agree with this dude

Cujo665

Delta and United both have very different management from AA. They tend to work more collaboratively, while AA tends to pit employee group against employee group, and be generally hostile to their employees.