ALPA
03-12-2022, 02:38 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,152
I’ve been apart of two independent unions and ALPA during my 22 year career and I can say without a doubt that when the IACP became ALPA, the only thing that changed is that ALPA became the owner of our union office building and all of the funds that our independent union had squirreled away over the years became ALPA’s funds. Our dues went from being 1% to 2% overnight, and the exact same leadership we had at the IACP were the exact same leadership we had under ALPA. Nothing changed except our dues. I pray that SWAPA of which I’m apart of now, never entertains going down the ALPA path and I also hope APA stays independent as well. ALPA is just a name, the individuals that run the local MEC’s at each Airline are what make or break the union.
03-12-2022, 02:44 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,152
I love the forums. Someone can just shout WRONG! and leave the room. 
Since you couldn't elaborate, let me. To recall an MEC in ALPA the LEC members have to vote to recall. The pilots can't recall them directly. Since the LEC members usually support the MEC, that means you need to recall the LEC first. To do that a pilot needs to write a resolution for recall, and get it on the agenda in time. They need to pack the room with as many sympathetic pilots as they can, and have each pilot bring the maximum amount of proxies, since the MEC supporters will be doing the same thing. You need to stand up and state your concerns and have a floor debate. Then there's a majority vote. If the resolution passes, a recall vote is held. now it's campaigning and mud slinging. If the LEC member is recalled a sympathetic LEC member is usually placed. Repeat this process in several LECs. Now they can do the same at the MEC level to recall the MEC. It's a long convoluted process. The easiest way to get rid of a rogue MEC is just wait until the next election cycle. ALPA C&BLs are written to protect the MEC Chairman.
Does APA do it that way?
Since you couldn't elaborate, let me. To recall an MEC in ALPA the LEC members have to vote to recall. The pilots can't recall them directly. Since the LEC members usually support the MEC, that means you need to recall the LEC first. To do that a pilot needs to write a resolution for recall, and get it on the agenda in time. They need to pack the room with as many sympathetic pilots as they can, and have each pilot bring the maximum amount of proxies, since the MEC supporters will be doing the same thing. You need to stand up and state your concerns and have a floor debate. Then there's a majority vote. If the resolution passes, a recall vote is held. now it's campaigning and mud slinging. If the LEC member is recalled a sympathetic LEC member is usually placed. Repeat this process in several LECs. Now they can do the same at the MEC level to recall the MEC. It's a long convoluted process. The easiest way to get rid of a rogue MEC is just wait until the next election cycle. ALPA C&BLs are written to protect the MEC Chairman.
Does APA do it that way?
You forgot to add that the people being "recalled" are the ones that get to set the time, date and location of the meetings too. I've seen recall meetings held 30 miles from the domicile.
03-12-2022, 02:49 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 2,300
We need some sort of shake up, and some thinking that wasn’t invented in DFW. For example, APA has been against the concept of double dipping over a bought trip, yet this is a great way to make more money without working more. There are a ton of other little items like this. There is an arrogance to the APA, that while it’s getting better, it’s still there. Even just moving the APA headquarters to MIA or another base, would help tremendously. It would attract non DFW pilots to the national officer jobs, and help reduce the number who jump from APA to management.
03-12-2022, 03:06 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,152
APA's problem is not one that switching unions solves. It is a fragmentation of not just the BOD but the pilot group as well. You need new leaders with experience at uniting multiple factions into a cohesive group. You need leaders with experience working with THIS management team as well as with Jerry Gl*******. They operate differently than every other legacy carrier, and intentionally are hostile towards their employees. You need leaders with proven experience making gains against all odds. Leaders that can tell management No without fear of retaliation. Leaders that won't even bring a losing TA for a vote. Leaders that recognize your worth, the state of the industry, the trends in staffing, and are prepared to demand professional treatment you all deserve from the company.
Switching to ALPA isn't going to solve those problems. Those problems are only solved by the membership realizing it is their best interest to make the changes needed to win in the long run, and electing representatives with the experience and proven success records to work towards those goals is the first step. You do not need to switch to ALPA to do that. In fact, I'd recommend against it for a number of reasons. A simple example was when my base LEC wanted to picket the airline at the domicile, it took many more months than it should have to finally get approval from ALPA National, and the signs made. Even then, they did nothing to make it happen beyond provide the signs.... and reluctantly at that until I made the MEC chairman call them in front of me.
You have people running for APA office now that have that experience, that have background of having made gains while the company demanded concessions, and that negotiated improved work rules on multiple fronts. They have a proven track record. This will be one of the most important elections in APA history since after the bankruptcy.
Vote carefully
Switching to ALPA isn't going to solve those problems. Those problems are only solved by the membership realizing it is their best interest to make the changes needed to win in the long run, and electing representatives with the experience and proven success records to work towards those goals is the first step. You do not need to switch to ALPA to do that. In fact, I'd recommend against it for a number of reasons. A simple example was when my base LEC wanted to picket the airline at the domicile, it took many more months than it should have to finally get approval from ALPA National, and the signs made. Even then, they did nothing to make it happen beyond provide the signs.... and reluctantly at that until I made the MEC chairman call them in front of me.
You have people running for APA office now that have that experience, that have background of having made gains while the company demanded concessions, and that negotiated improved work rules on multiple fronts. They have a proven track record. This will be one of the most important elections in APA history since after the bankruptcy.
Vote carefully
03-12-2022, 03:16 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,152
We need some sort of shake up, and some thinking that wasn’t invented in DFW. For example, APA has been against the concept of double dipping over a bought trip, yet this is a great way to make more money without working more. There are a ton of other little items like this. There is an arrogance to the APA, that while it’s getting better, it’s still there. Even just moving the APA headquarters to MIA or another base, would help tremendously. It would attract non DFW pilots to the national officer jobs, and help reduce the number who jump from APA to management.
The shake up you need is new leaders; not a new brand, not a new location. With the new software revolution from the Pandemic the ability to host remote meetings and do everything you do in an in-person meeting (except shake hands) is readily available. It would also allow pilots to attend the meetings remotely from anyplace on earth and participate in their union. The fact that they haven't already started doing this put them behind already. I was ALPA in the past and even as far back as 2013 we could do teleconference and allow members to dial in and participate. At my current carrier we are Teamsters and they use video teleconferencing much as I described above so that any member pay participate. The problem you are citing is easily rectified just with technology. I do think the union HQ should remain near the airline HQ. It makes getting things done quickly more possible. Any type of negotiating (and it's all negotiating) is best done face to face. That is easiest when you can hop in the car, drive a few minutes and go walk into the bosses office to talk something out.
03-12-2022, 04:11 PM
#38
Eating A Gruben
Joined APC: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,065
The shake up you need is new leaders; not a new brand, not a new location. With the new software revolution from the Pandemic the ability to host remote meetings and do everything you do in an in-person meeting (except shake hands) is readily available. It would also allow pilots to attend the meetings remotely from anyplace on earth and participate in their union. The fact that they haven't already started doing this put them behind already. I was ALPA in the past and even as far back as 2013 we could do teleconference and allow members to dial in and participate. At my current carrier we are Teamsters and they use video teleconferencing much as I described above so that any member pay participate. The problem you are citing is easily rectified just with technology. I do think the union HQ should remain near the airline HQ. It makes getting things done quickly more possible. Any type of negotiating (and it's all negotiating) is best done face to face. That is easiest when you can hop in the car, drive a few minutes and go walk into the bosses office to talk something out.
03-12-2022, 04:42 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,152
03-13-2022, 12:22 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,152
I’d highly recommend you all consider, research for yourself, and then give your vote to Sam Pool.
Http://www.sampool.com
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