Tjeff

Can pilots on probation vote on elections and/or TAs?

biigD

Certainly does, and looking at the candidate resumes, seems like a well qualified guy.

sanicom3205

Sam for President, Torres for vice. The improvement would be huge for us.

Worth noting that Art Coburn was careless enough to spam everyones phones with unsolicited texts. Also running for multiple positions. Clearly just wants power and/or to stop flying the line

fcoolaiddrinker

That’s exactly correct. F9 going from Fapa to alpa sped up negotiations by a year at least. Plus we stopped losing arbitrations. Arbitrators seemed a bit more hesitant to rule against a larger union with gray areas. They might find themselves left off contractual lists come arbitration time. On the plus side, using standard alpa language helps with disputes because at some point it’s more than likely been arbitrated before. No idea what APA language looks like and/or if there’s issues that potential lead to more disputes because it’s not really standardized? Also, I agree with everyone that mentioned it’s more about MEC leadership than anything.

povertyeagle

He's already seen dysfunction to the max with Eagle through bankruptcy.

He's a great candidate with great experience.

OKLATEX

With FDX.

Keep in mind FDX had been Non-Union with Federal Express until the Flying Tigers Merger in ‘89. ALPA, which represented Flying Tigers was voted in during a contested battle during the integration of Tigers and FedEx. ALPA I (ALPA - One) as it is referred to emerged but was short lived until it was replaced by FPA, FedEx Pilots Association. ALPA I leaders recognized the need for a Union, but the place was in disarray with the merger. For the collective good they pushed for FPA in attempts to form some sort of unity. FPA tried to represent FedEx Pilots and ultimately was able to achieve our first contract in 1998. It basically was the “Handbook” which was used when FDX pilots were non-union. It was a start regardless. As others mentioned, given the inexperienced/resources of FPA, the resources ALPA offered were attractive as FPA struggled to keep up with the Company. Further, I think FPA was viewed as a ‘company union’ because of how some of its leaders managed it. Lastly, how Contract ‘98 was achieved was questionable and also led to the desire for change.

You also have to understand this time period was a decade that was pretty rough for FedEx pilots. With the merger, you had a Memphis based, predominantly ex-military/Navy culture, non-union, 25 Year old pre-deregulation new comer, which was an all cargo domestic airline merge with a storied, Los Angeles based, then was the world’s largest cargo airline (also had passenger charter operations) with a strong ALPA culture, which had just gone through a merger with Seaboard World Airlines less than a decade earlier. Further, the recession of the 1990s came and FDX quickly parked the 727s, followed by the DC-8s; only the 747s lasted until the mid 1990s. The icing on the cake for the FDX pilots was that they expected Tigers to be stapled to the bottom of the list, only to find the Tigers pilots get a favorable integration. To add more joy, we started hiring in the Mid 1990s, adding new hires into the battle between the “Silver Pilots” and “Purple Pilots” (Tigers vs FedEx).

I’m a post 9/11 hire. But from the guys I’ve flown from all 3 sides, Tigers, Original FDX and New Hires, it was an incredibly challenging time. Frankly ugly. All agree it worked out in the end but it certainly took time. Time heals a lot, retirements helped and actions of the company helped.

From my perspective. I’ve seen FDX mature as a pilot group. I certainly think being part of ALPA again has been a good thing. We are in contract talks now, so we will get an idea of how we are doing, but from my time here, over a decade and a half, we are improving for sure.

So, I would say ALPA I-FPA-ALPA II has been evolutionary. As others have mentioned, it comes down to those in leadership positions, which frankly, I think has been evolutionary as well for us. Bottom line we’ve learned from our mistakes and I would also say new hires/new ideas have helped and been welcomed. I also think we’ve benefited from those who came to us from other legacy airlines with the 9/11 furloughs and the Regional guys who are part of the ‘lost decade’ who finally made it to the show.

One last thing, we have added several bases lately. Current bases are Memphis, Los Angeles, Anchorage, Indianapolis, Oakland, and Cologne, Germany. However we remain Memphis centric overall. One thing I find unique, and do think works well is the LEC structure in general, and for Memphis especially. We have 3 LECs representing Memphis based pilots. Within each LEC are 3 Block Reps. So, that’s 9 Reps. 8 of those Reps serve the Memphis based pilots broken down by seniority blocks. 1 Rep represents the Instructors. Thus they are refereed to as Block Reps. So you have a Senior Rep, Middle Seniority Rep and a Junior Rep within each LEC. For example, I’m a very senior FO. I’m in a LEC that represents Blocks 1,4,8. Representing the Most Senior Pilots, 50% overall Seniority Pilots and New Hires. The other bases are represented by individual LECs. The system seems to be a fair way, especially with such a large base as Memphis to equally represent all pilots. In my previous airlines I was accustomed to the traditional base and seat reps.

Certainly wish AA pilots the best.

aa73

OKLATEX … awesome summary! Thank you. We shall see what the future will bring here. It’s definitely an uphill battle

FXLAX

It seems like leadership is the biggest variable. And it sounds like, in general ALPA’s biggest advantage is it’s resources. Every organization is going to do better with better leadership, that is a given. So it would be logical that having both at the same time is better than just one. I see it going from independent to a national “union” as increasing the potential of what can be accomplished. That potential will be tapped by leadership and like it’s been said, better leadership will always be better. Imagine the APA BOD with the resources of ALPA. Now imagine the leaderships you deserve serving on the APA BOD with the ALPA resources? That is the potential of a merger with ALPA. Of course, your part will always be electing good leadership, this always an ongoing issue at all ALPA properties, all pilot groups for that matter.

I’ll also advice that if you decide to entertain a merger with ALPA, you will be in the driver’s seat. You will be able to dictate many items that would go a long way in most of your concerns. Things like current treasury, leadership positions at national, specific by-law changes, dues reductions, etc. Speaking of dues, current ALPA dues are 1.85%. There has been national committee discussions on reducing it by another .1% pre-COVID. So there is certainly desire for dues reduction, if that is your main concern.

TallFlyer

All this. AA would immediately be the largest carrier in ALPA, with the most votes at BOD (which means something different at ALPA). You’d also have your own EVP representing your interests at other levels in the organization. Pair those structural different with leaders like Sam who have loads of experience using those resources, and it’s a potent combination.


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Cujo665

There are no resources that ALPA has that the APA doesn’t, or can’t contract for from somebody else, in fact, why would you want to fund resources your group never uses when you can cherry pick the ones you do need? ALPA taking on a largely dysfunctional pilot union as the APA currently is does not impart any position of power to the APA in negotiations. The APA needs to get their own house in order, then decide if merging into ALPA is in their best interest. The whole ALPA dues discussion has been going on the better part of a decade as a means to influence APA to join. ALPA is a decent union, but that doesn’t mean it’s the best fit for APA. Currently your BOD, all AA pilots, make the final decisions. At ALPA a national BOD, or pilots from multiple airlines, is above your MEC and while they can’t “dictate” per se, they do control the requests for extra funding, they do put their thumb on the scale in various ways.

as a former AMR/AAG guy now on the outside looking in, having been an LEC Chair, MEC member, national BOD member I will repeat; get your own house in order before trying to trade brands.

When and if the time comes to join ALPA, I’ll add that Sam Pool is already very well experienced and well known at ALPA national and would make that transition flow more smoothly if you all ever decided to go that way. Personally, I don’t think you need to at this time.

Http://www.Sampool.com