Close Call at JFK
#41
Will we not have the CVR because the flight went on to LHR?
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,533
That would be my guess.
Edit: although I am reading now that the NTSB recommended 25 hour recording ability in 2018 due to scenarios just like this. Whether or not this recommendation was adopted, I’d have no idea. Maybe?
Edit: although I am reading now that the NTSB recommended 25 hour recording ability in 2018 due to scenarios just like this. Whether or not this recommendation was adopted, I’d have no idea. Maybe?
#43
Couple of questions from a SWA guy.
—So on this flight if I understand it a third crew member was present? As in required or a jumpseater? Was this person up on comms? What is this persons role during taxi? See something say something?
—Was the taxi route briefed? Verbalized?
—Did the captain verbalize something along the lines of “clear to cross 31L?” (Wrong runway?)
—Would the FO be conducting a prepare for takeoff PA during a runway crossing?
—Is the FO new? Unfamiliar? Been to JFK before?
Im close to upgrade and this stuff is what bothers me the most. The flying isn’t supposed to be an issue at this level—it’s turning the damn wrong way on the ground!
Im very glad the controller caught it—even though wouldnt someone have seen a 777 holding short of the wrong crossing runway?
To make a point—1000 feet separation is five runway edge lights, and a 737 is at takeoff thrust and 80 knots before you leave the touchdown zone markers.
Im not sure what to think about departing after that one. Obviously the media blew up by the time they got to LHR.
—So on this flight if I understand it a third crew member was present? As in required or a jumpseater? Was this person up on comms? What is this persons role during taxi? See something say something?
—Was the taxi route briefed? Verbalized?
—Did the captain verbalize something along the lines of “clear to cross 31L?” (Wrong runway?)
—Would the FO be conducting a prepare for takeoff PA during a runway crossing?
—Is the FO new? Unfamiliar? Been to JFK before?
Im close to upgrade and this stuff is what bothers me the most. The flying isn’t supposed to be an issue at this level—it’s turning the damn wrong way on the ground!
Im very glad the controller caught it—even though wouldnt someone have seen a 777 holding short of the wrong crossing runway?
To make a point—1000 feet separation is five runway edge lights, and a 737 is at takeoff thrust and 80 knots before you leave the touchdown zone markers.
Im not sure what to think about departing after that one. Obviously the media blew up by the time they got to LHR.
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2021
Posts: 349
all these senior papas “Let me listen in on your PA to the passengers so you don’t say the wrong thing”
When in reality this defeats the purpose of the new changes to prevent the issue that just happened. They want the CA focused on the Taxi so, ya know, they don’t turn the wrong way and nearly cause an accident. But man, so many of these CAs are micro managers and don’t trust their FOs with a simple stupid PA… they forget most of the FOs were regional captains and check airman for years….
When in reality this defeats the purpose of the new changes to prevent the issue that just happened. They want the CA focused on the Taxi so, ya know, they don’t turn the wrong way and nearly cause an accident. But man, so many of these CAs are micro managers and don’t trust their FOs with a simple stupid PA… they forget most of the FOs were regional captains and check airman for years….
#46
Couple of questions from a SWA guy.
—So on this flight if I understand it a third crew member was present? As in required or a jumpseater? Was this person up on comms? What is this persons role during taxi? See something say something?
—Was the taxi route briefed? Verbalized?
—Did the captain verbalize something along the lines of “clear to cross 31L?” (Wrong runway?)
—Would the FO be conducting a prepare for takeoff PA during a runway crossing?
—Is the FO new? Unfamiliar? Been to JFK before?.
—So on this flight if I understand it a third crew member was present? As in required or a jumpseater? Was this person up on comms? What is this persons role during taxi? See something say something?
—Was the taxi route briefed? Verbalized?
—Did the captain verbalize something along the lines of “clear to cross 31L?” (Wrong runway?)
—Would the FO be conducting a prepare for takeoff PA during a runway crossing?
—Is the FO new? Unfamiliar? Been to JFK before?.
Of course I don't know, but this feels like expectation bias. I'll bet they did exactly what they briefed.
#47
all these senior papas “Let me listen in on your PA to the passengers so you don’t say the wrong thing”
When in reality this defeats the purpose of the new changes to prevent the issue that just happened. They want the CA focused on the Taxi so, ya know, they don’t turn the wrong way and nearly cause an accident. But man, so many of these CAs are micro managers and don’t trust their FOs with a simple stupid PA… they forget most of the FOs were regional captains and check airman for years….
When in reality this defeats the purpose of the new changes to prevent the issue that just happened. They want the CA focused on the Taxi so, ya know, they don’t turn the wrong way and nearly cause an accident. But man, so many of these CAs are micro managers and don’t trust their FOs with a simple stupid PA… they forget most of the FOs were regional captains and check airman for years….
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2021
Posts: 1,457
Sorry to hear that's a "thing" at AA. Not saying things like that never happen at United, and CERTAINLY not implying it was at issue in this instance, but that's the whole point of the years and years of training we've been getting in this industry regarding Cockpit Leadership or Cockpit Resource Management or whatever it's called at different companies. Hopefully by now most captains at the majors understand that being overbearing can cause EXACTLY this type of mistake. Far better to have a crew working as a team than a crew worried about p1ss1ng off or even worse afraid of the captain.
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,870
Sorry to hear that's a "thing" at AA. Not saying things like that never happen at United, and CERTAINLY not implying it was at issue in this instance, but that's the whole point of the years and years of training we've been getting in this industry regarding Cockpit Leadership or Cockpit Resource Management or whatever it's called at different companies. Hopefully by now most captains at the majors understand that being overbearing can cause EXACTLY this type of mistake. Far better to have a crew working as a team than a crew worried about p1ss1ng off or even worse afraid of the captain.
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