After Delta did the heavy lifting, United stepped in and added 2 more percent. If APA can’t raise the bar even 1%, they are useless. They did not negotiate this; Delta and United did.

APA is a failure. It is time for fresh blood.

 

An utter and embarrassing failure.

Unfortunately, after this pusillanimous display of incompetence and impotence, DAL and UAL won't want APA in alpa. It just ain't happening.

 

I don’t necessarily disagree with what you guys said, but actual AA pilots can come to the conclusion that is best for us. We don’t need guys from other airlines starting negative threads on our forum, but thanks anyway…

 

I disagree… Our independent mindset is why we suck at negotiating contracts

 

They’re Monday morning quarterbacking, not trying to be constructive.

 

Okay, how about this then. We ALL do better when each peer is raising the bar to some degree. Each contract has its unique items which need attention/individual attention, but adding soft pay, vacation, retirement, sick, in addition to pay rates and other “goodies”. Pattern bargaining isn’t just about “me too” on pay rates & soft pay. If DL adds one good item, UA can get it and add its own good item. AA then gets them both and then adds it own goodie to the mix. In the next round, DL then continues the cycle. WN has a role here too. That’s the power of pattern bargaining. But everyone has to do their part.

Can APA not understand the frustration when other peers are doing all the hard work, and not getting any help from APA? 4 attempts to get nothing more than “me too” additions? All it would take is a penny more on the pay table, and once DL and UA use that, APA gets it on the next contract. We are scratching each others backs.

 

They’re angry because everyone should be getting more. You can see looking at the American agreement that pattern bargaining is a real thing. We need all three legacy carriers to participate to get the most gain. Not only is American not raising the bar, you aren’t even getting some new industry standard gains that the other two airlines have. Crew meals, extended duty pay, your sit pay start at 2:30 while theirs will start at 2 hours, sick leave, etc. Even your profit sharing isn’t pensionable (401k contributions). You managed to get their payrates exactly though to avoid triggering both snap-up clauses. This is what, you’re third or fourth agreement in principle? Yes, the other airline pilots are mad because APA is holding everyone else back.

We want the APA pilots to succeed and lead the industry. We are actually rooting for you guys, but you are failing miserably. At this point, voting it in is probably you’re best option. Maybe next negotiation you guys will contribute to the industry instead of just waiting for Delta and United to pattern bargain up to.

 

Nobody disagrees with you Delta guys. You’re preaching to the choir. American pilots are disgusted with APA… I really think a move to ALPA is inevitable.

 

Another OAL know-it-all with wrong info. Profit sharing is pensionable. Sit pay is over 2 hours “scheduled” on UAL AIP, exactly like AA current sit pay. AA new sit will be actual, which is an improvement to current book IMO. Also UAL is 1:3 DOS, AA is and remains 1:2. I prefer AA AIP sick to either of the other two. AA LTD is no question industry leading, why didn’t UAL pattern off of that and improve?

My point, this whining about pattern bargaining on pay rates is retarded. Go away. We certainly have our own **** to work out, but I still wouldn’t trade spots.

 

You guys showed us how it’s done. You did so great that you had to go back to the company after the United deal to ask for more. That’s how to lead the industry.