Bw2003

From my experience, when talking to other pilots outside these forums, there seems to be some sort of stigma/stereotype about American. Folks seem to rank it below Delta and United amongst the legacies, or flat out recommend to steer clear (never based on first-hand knowledge). FWIW, Wall Street appears to have a similar sentiment (DAL $36.26, UAL $39.59, AAL $12.27). I know American had a bankruptcy in 2011 (United also in 2002) and carries a significant amount of debt, but is there more to it? I haven’t heard anything negative from folks currently flying there, and see a lot of areas where American seems to come out on top (reserve rules, commutability, bases, Sky-view 6, no hat, etc.). Why the seemingly grey cloud over AAL comparitvely? I don't get it.

JulesWinfield

Lots of pilot groups merged into one, hostile management, and lots of union issues. The debt thing is overblown, as most of the debt was using to modernize the fleet when interest was cheap.

The latest contract symbolizes what is wrong: the company and the union went for industry matching, instead of industry leading. There’s also way less widebodies here.

With that said, we have a lot of retirements over the next decade, and everyone will eventually be an AA hire, and not someone who got screwed in a merger. We have our issues, but I live 20 minutes from the mothership and don’t want to be anywhere else.

sailingfun

Stock price is a useless barometer without knowing the shares outstanding. That said American has a lot more debt than their competitors. On the plus side they have a newer fleet than DAL and UAL.

Pacman

APA is a mess and negotiating to match ALPA is the prime reason we have the "Mesa of the majors" reputation here. That said, the pilot group also refuses to acknowledge the better things that we start with contractually. If you dropped the United or Delta contracts in front of us to vote on tomorrow over our own I don't think either would pass.

ImSoSuss

I don't see that at all. Maybe that is what noob regional pilots think (although I didn't when I was one) but that is not the perception when you get to this level amongst peers. Well, I take that back, Delta pilots are indoctrinated to think they are better than everybody else. They are kind of like the Skywest of the Legacies.

Name User

Mesa of the majors? Have some self respect.

The entire airline will be completely replaced in another five years. It will be a totally different vibe. Also we have the best CEO of the majors IMO. Focused on operational reliability with a long background in ops.

Personally I don't gas if "my peer" makes $1.12/hr more than me. It's inconsequential in the big scheme of things. But so many measure their self worth on "being paid the most".

nene

A lot of that perception is left over from the 90's, 2000's when AA's mgmt seemed to be the harshest towards the pilot group. When there were furloughs by everyone, my friends who were pilots at AA were treated the worst by a mile. They used to charge all their employees just to JS to work as well (unless flight was full and they actually flew on the JS). Then you had a decade of multimergers, cost cutting and for awhile AA seemed to be moving towards being the largest LCC (ordered tons of planes without IFE, had a bathroom that a littleperson couldn't even fit in). But like everything else in this industry, times change, mgmt's change, and AA has seemed to turn the corner and at least match the legacy industry on mgmt/pilots interactions. Problem is other than a short COVID pause, all the airlines have been hiring for a decade and at some point things slow and reductions are made, that is when mgmt will show thier true metal against employees again.

I hope the industry can live in another decade of expansion, but time will tell. At this point, if looking to get hired, find an airline with a base in a city your willing to move to and enjoy the ride!

Easyflier301

That perception is out there. Like others have said, AA's older generation of pilots (TWA, US, legacy AA, etc) have probably been beaten down the most of the legacies over the last 3 decades with mergers, furloughs, labor strife, management hostility, etc. Because the older guys have come from so many different pilot groups, unity is lacking. Then there is the fact that AA was the only company to furlough during COVID. From the way it has been explained to me (those who were here at the time please correct me if I'm wrong) AA offered not to furlough if the APA would accept pay cuts (like UAL ALPA did) but APA declined, and hence furloughs happened. Part of the older mentality of "I took my lumps, I'm not going to sacrifice now, welcome to the industry."

I will say that these very same factors lead to a very relaxed environment in the cockpit. No one is going to bust your chops for not having your shoes shined.

Agree with the sentiments above that none of this history should determine whether to come to AA or not in 2023 and beyond. Its a new world, and on the whole all of the legacy contracts are on par with each other. Retirements will keep coming. So far, AA has followed through on all of the contract implementation timelines. Are there things that could be better? Of course. But same with UAL/DAL. Check out their forums for yourself. Those you've talked to are a good representation - few pilots hired since COVID at AA seem unhappy here, minus the typical social media crowd that you'll find at any shop.

Work where you want to live.

Varks

Do not commute. Go to the airline where you want to live.

AA has improved. Our operation has improved. Debt is being payed down.

APA vs. ALPA. We should at least explore what the pros and cons are.

Does management like us. Not really. I really never deal with them. I couldn't pick a single Chief Pilot out of a line up. I have never ever called them and they never call me.

They used to care about people calling in sick. Today they just accept it and expect you to use it. I have way more than most people and now I will get $200,000 when I retire for it.

There are some great things in the new contract. It's not perfect but we vastly improved it. Sure there was some coat tail riding.

We will have pilots making close to $1,000,000. I have seen $700,000 with the old contract and we just got a 47% raise over 4 years. Do the math.

Wide body issue is a concern. We are getting more as well as the XLR/NEO that pays like a 757.

If you want to live in Dallas, Charlotte, Miami, Philly. Do it.

PRS Guitars

I've said this on here before. Our pilot group is great to work with, cockpit demeanor is mostly laid back but still professional. We as a group aren't into bragging or thinking of ourselves as better than other airlines, we do like to sport *****. Some OALs pilots are fed lines about how great they are or how great the company is, some seem to buy into it I guess, and air their dirty laundry less than AA pilots, possibly leading to the perception that it sucks at AA. It doesn't, it's a great job, we just generally aren't going to say that. These mergers were the perfect storm to create a pilot group that just isn't big on kool aid.