Tomahawk58

Yes it will be thinner; but it won't be empty!

80drvr

Not necessarily -- under the term sheet proposals, some will make more w/ the pay banding and productivity increase and some less. 767 Domestic and International pilots will take a haircut when the international override goes away and the pay band for the A-321 replacement aircraft moves lower. MD-80 pilots would initially get a pay increase w/ additional (forced) productivity. If an MD-80 pilot transitions to the 737-800, it should be a wash, but if they go to the A-319 (lower pay band for a more capable, higherMGTOW aircraft), it'll be a pay cut.

We need to keep in mind that the term sheet is an opening proposal--It's their wish list. While the court could theoretically reject the CBA, it's the equivalent of mutually assured destruction. The company can't realistically exit bankruptcy into the final stages of Section 6 negotiations w/ imposed compensation and work rules. That is real leverage that should ultimately drive both sides toward a mutually acceptable deal. There will be a lot of noise and posturing along the way, but as the clock ticks down, positions will get closer on both sides -- just as they do in Section 6 when the prospect of release gets closer. The term sheet in the end will bear little resemblance to what is finally TA'd.

A320

Be aware of this. Once they get you to agree to whatever concessions they go along with, they will come back for more.

Daniel Larusso

Yes, read that statement twice and look at the history of those that have waked the road before you.

NWARet

On Wednesday, February 1st, American Airlines announced that it will take the advice of Mitt Romney’s firm, Bain Capital, and lay off 13,000 workers -15 percent of its workforce- replacing their pension plans with 401(k) plans and ending company-paid retiree healthcare.

The lay off announcement came only seven days after American Airlines hired Bain Capital to guide it through a bankruptcy procedure for which the airline had filed last November.

satpak77

Me wonders if these are not requirements imposed upon AMR by outside buyers prior to making the purchase. Do X, Y, Z, and then we will buy you guys.

Typhoonpilot

The pilots still at American would be well advised to talk to pilots from USAirways, Delta, NWA, and others that left to go overseas. Many regret the move even after losing their pensions and taking huge pay cuts at their respective carriers.

We've got quite a few here at EK that fall into that boat. The Delta B777 Captain that was demoted to B777 First Officer here for a bad approach and some bad sim sessions. The NWA A330 Captain that was demoted to First Officer after an almost identical scenario. The USAirways A320 captain that used to use the race card at USAirways to get by. Failed training here and was fired by the black chief pilot, which was backed up by the black fleet manager.

Anybody read Pprune and the diatribe by an ex Delta B767 Captain who was fired by Korean? It was attitude that did him in. Lots of guys don't make it through training at KAL.

It's a different world overseas. All those union protections that pilots in the USA are used to do not exist.

Even pilots who have done well in training and adjusted to the life overseas have regrets. There are quite a few who would make a different decision if they could turn back the clock.

When I was an MD80 Captain in Taiwan ( furloughed USAir at the time ) I said I would go back to USAir because being a first officer at a major in the USA was better than being a captain overseas. Still had a pension to go back to then In 1999 I did go back and was quite happy as a B737 First Officer. It was a far better QOL than living overseas.

Those who know me on this board know that I work for EK and have for 9 years now. I write about the hiring and opportunities at EK, but my audience should be those who are furloughed; retired early with their pension; or guys who are still at the regionals/supplementals and too old to make a good career out of a major. My audience was never meant to be senior legacy captains who are a bit unhappy because of a pay cut and some work rule changes. The QOL is still way better at a bankrupt legacy than it is overseas.



Typhoonpilot

Timbo

Typhoon, incomming private message...thanks.

SSMR13

I'm watching this entire process with great interest, and wish all the American guys the best possible outcome. I really hope you guys stick to your guns.

One question. Many seem concerned with allowing the judge to rule on the contract. This latest proposal is a joke, and should be viewed as such in my opinion. The question is. Can the judge impose pay/rules, etc., that is/are substantially less than your peers in the industry (Delta, United)? Or is he required to consider all those, and apply something that reflects their contractual rules and pay?

It just seems to me, that if the judge could do anything, he could hypothetically make American much more competitive with their cost structure, so much that it would be to the detriment of the other legacies. I don't see this as a possibility, as the judge in this case would give advantage to American over their competitors. Is this possible, or does he have to apply rules/pay that are in line with the competitors, ie. reduce Americans cost only to a point where it is on par with their competitors? And if said work rules/pay are already sub-par, can the judge even touch these, as that is obviously not the reason that brought the company to bankruptcy?

Grumble

That's quite a telling statement.