eaglefly

Most definately there are. But would be error to think everyone is that way. Like all pilot groups, this one is a bell curve on all issues. The level of militancy varies among individual pilots and even sub groups of status and domicile.

Actually, should the 1113 be imposed and elements of that begin to be implimented, I think it will only shift more of the currently meek and/or middle-of-the-road toward greater militancy as the this managements ruthlessness actually becomes reality for them. Then, depending on the timing and level of assault, that will actually make any future agreement increasing more difficult to ratify. At some point, many pushed to the brink will simply pull up stakes and leave. I think the worst scenario would be AMR leaving BK with no agreement as then there would be no judge to run to should attrition become excessive. That's a major loss of leverage and if AA unravels to the point of a fragmentation announcement, I think a mass exodus would occur as many pilots would then bail with what they got and move on. All you'd be fragmenting is a lot of airplanes and not as many pilots. Many of those routes couldn't be sustained during that fragmentation and thus that revenue would be lost forever to others. If a fragmentation of some or all of AA occured without pilots, that mass exodus would become a stampede that would way too early for either party of that specific fragmentation, because at that point, it's all over and for most nothing left to lose but assist AMR in the final slitting of their throats. Sure, you could train, but that takes months, which is too long to stop the transitional damage. That damage would weaken any such transactions value and would likely be a colossal goat****.

ouring over the last few days comments from many of the analysts, it seems now even many of them are suddenly scurrying out of their holes and claiming AMR will have serious difficulty presenting a winning POR with a wildcard for pilot labor costs which is an about face from their claims prior to the TA vote. Coincidentally (or not), the APA itself as part of their sales job to the pilots claimed a yes vote would weaken AMR and now many are saying what the pilots believed all along........that the fastest way to getting a new management that actually might consider the pilots to be human beings instead of "bricks" has now been made MORE likely then less, thus the APA leaders have lost the confidence of many of the pilots as they seem to completely out of touch with both them and the situation and quite frankly for many of them, their loyalties are being questioned. More then one domicile wants to clean house of their reps and one in particular is up for that possibility soon. If that domicile changes it representational base, it could swing the BOD in the opposite direction.

Personally, I think AMR once again embracing their hideously flawed philosophy of kickig the can down the road and limping along through the BK process will only prove to be as successful as the last 15 years of running this airline.

At least they'd be consistant.

alfaromeo

(b)(1) Subsequent to filing a petition and prior to filing an application seeking rejection of a collective bargaining agreement, thedebtor in possession or trustee (hereinafter in this section ''trustee'' shall include a debtor in possession), shall -


(A) make a proposal to the authorized representative of the employees covered by such agreement, based on the most complete and reliable information available at the time of such proposal, which provides for those necessary modifications in the employees benefits and protections that are necessary to permit the reorganization of the debtor and assures that all creditors, the debtor and all of the affected parties are treated fairly and equitably; and


(B) provide, subject to subsection (d)(3), the representative of the employees with such relevant information as is necessary to evaluate the proposal.


What's your point? Management made an offer to APA, they reached an agreement approved by the union leadership. The question before the judge is whether or not the balance of the equities favors rejection.

eaglefly

Well, to play angel's advocate, a few questions to ask would be; Has AMR REALLY met the spirit and intent of these bankruptcy provisions or just the "letter of the law" ?

Is their 1113 request and the LBFO TA that was concocted from it REALLY what is "necessary" for AMR to successfully reorganize or was it simply a gross overreach by a management with a long history of taking advantage of its labor ?

Are the pilots REALLY being treated "fairly and equitably" in this process or are they simply being taken advantage of again in an arena that gives even more leverage then normal to virtually everyone BUT labor ?

Will THIS judge simply be a another rubber stamp for the letter of the law or will he break from the past and actually determine that indeed the debtors request in this filing does not meet the spirit and intent ?

Personally, I think odds favor a business as usual situation and a rubber stamp a'la the past, but there still remains the chance this judge will see what is really happening here from a corporation who filed BK with almost 5 billion and has made another billion without a single implimentation of any cost-saving measure by labor requested by them of the court.

I think it's easy to see why AA pilots patience for this BS has come to an end and their cup of tolerance is about to runneth over.

javaguy141

Seems to me this entire thread hints at "the elephant in the room" we have arguments about all the "leagaleze" But--what about an "EFF it" attitude that sees a "wildcat" strike. AA pilots--rightly so---are getting to a point where the repercussions don't really matter. Lawyers on here have an answer to that. NO WAY are you running a company with 60% of your pilots gone. I don't care if you get a judge to fire them.

Mesabah

What I think is likely to happen, is the first 1113(c) filing will be denied by the judge. However, the judge will allow an expedited re-filing, and that one will get approved. AMR management has to remove the scope relief sections of the 1113(c) filing for it to get approved. In bankruptcy you can't ask a union employee to give up his/her job as a form of concessions(it's unfair), it must be willfully voted away.

alfaromeo

Well, the answer to all these questions will be coming soon. My opinion doesn't matter a whit compared to what the judge says.

chignutsak

This is the crux of the whole matter now, is it not? What they have the cojones to do (or NOT do).

eaglefly

Personally, I have difficulty seeing anyone ride that particular "elephant" at this time. The future is a wildcard right now and no one can predict that future as there are too many potential paths still possible.

eaglefly

Not going to argue the validity of your assertions above here, but without scope relief AMR's POR is a non-starter. Even WITH scope relief, most agree it's already on life support and coughing up blood.

eaglefly

IMO there are aspects of the strategy you infer that create more problems then they solve. IMO, you're more likely to simply see pilots just leaving and not trying to make any statement other then they want to get on with their lives and stop existing in this absurd environment. A lot could afford it and others sound like they can get other gigs.

Personally, the thought of breaking my butt under anything like that TA for minimal reward while the fat cats explode their personal wealth at my expense is of no interest to me. I'm sure they could find thousands of hungry RJ drivers who would push their grandmothers down a steep flight of stairs to touch a new A319 for $40/hour though.