American and pilots reach tentative pact
11-12-2012 | 07:39 PM
#41
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Joined: Oct 2006
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From: B757/767
I just read it. I'm a NO vote again.
4/2/2 pay raises. No night pay, yes int'l override of $6 hr for CA and about $4 hr for FO
Pay protection and sequence protection...finally currently since the 1960's AA pilots have only had their last trip of the month pay protected, and only for mx cancels. And you must make attempt to fly in make-up for up to 8 hrs after your footprint
New pay protect you are obligated to fly footprint plus another day till 2pm
Still has out of base 24 off in 7. Also can be out of country so they can schedule reserves in excess of 20 days in a row. I personallly was on reserve for 15 days in a row last and this month. I had 3 trips out of the country and they used my time in Brazil as my 24 off in 7.
My understanding is with PBS at UAL/CAL and DAL you must have 24 off in base in 7 days. We do not will not have that. This is ugly.
Scope give to 76 seats. I could not tell if it was 50% or more of narrowbody fleet. As usual the contraact language I couldn't decifer total percentage.
Looks like the E-175 will be flying 8/72 seats adjusted to 76 seats.
7576FO
4/2/2 pay raises. No night pay, yes int'l override of $6 hr for CA and about $4 hr for FO
Pay protection and sequence protection...finally currently since the 1960's AA pilots have only had their last trip of the month pay protected, and only for mx cancels. And you must make attempt to fly in make-up for up to 8 hrs after your footprint
New pay protect you are obligated to fly footprint plus another day till 2pm
Still has out of base 24 off in 7. Also can be out of country so they can schedule reserves in excess of 20 days in a row. I personallly was on reserve for 15 days in a row last and this month. I had 3 trips out of the country and they used my time in Brazil as my 24 off in 7.
My understanding is with PBS at UAL/CAL and DAL you must have 24 off in base in 7 days. We do not will not have that. This is ugly.
Scope give to 76 seats. I could not tell if it was 50% or more of narrowbody fleet. As usual the contraact language I couldn't decifer total percentage.
Looks like the E-175 will be flying 8/72 seats adjusted to 76 seats.
7576FO
11-13-2012 | 03:44 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,042
Likes: 0
From: 737 CA MIA
So can you tell me how your reserve schedule looks? Every other month the way the bids come together I am on RSV for 19-20 days in a row. Scheduling will wait till the last minute to use my moveable day off to fix the 24/7 problem.
I'm asking are you guys scheduled for 19 on in a row? I was told the UAL reserve sched is printed. 6 on, 2 or 3 off, 6 on 2-4 off, and so on.
My schedule just shows 19 on in a row. Then 2 or 3 off, for December my reserve choices (last choice) are Dec 1-10 on, 4 days off, 8 on, 4 off
I hate it.
I'm asking are you guys scheduled for 19 on in a row? I was told the UAL reserve sched is printed. 6 on, 2 or 3 off, 6 on 2-4 off, and so on.
My schedule just shows 19 on in a row. Then 2 or 3 off, for December my reserve choices (last choice) are Dec 1-10 on, 4 days off, 8 on, 4 off
I hate it.
11-13-2012 | 04:00 AM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,949
Likes: 9
Hell to the No!
What are they gonna do, impose the 1113... oh, wait, we've been living under it now for 2 months.
What a joke. After sending APA a strong unified message in August and them promising an ISC, they give us THIS??
Mess with the Bull, you get the horns! Voting NO
What are they gonna do, impose the 1113... oh, wait, we've been living under it now for 2 months.
What a joke. After sending APA a strong unified message in August and them promising an ISC, they give us THIS??
Mess with the Bull, you get the horns! Voting NO
11-13-2012 | 06:11 AM
#45
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
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After review, it is with heavy heart that I must inform all that the APA has hideously failed its pilots again. I'll take my chances going forward into the unknown and will be unquestionably voting no. If it passes, it's clear management will have carte blanche to mangle what's left of a once great airline into regional airline status.
As an Eagle refugee, it only means I'm going back home to where I was. Oh, the planes will be bigger, but the "career" will have left the building. It's possible that in a month or so, there will only be 2 legacy carriers (United, Delta). If AA flies E-190's we will get paid less then Jet Blue. Our Airbus rates will be at the bottom of the barrel and scope gutted. The APA claimed they wouldn't send us anything that wasn't Industry Standard and this isn't even close. To those at United and Delta, I can only hope the PILOTS here stand up to their own union and vote this down, for if not, then we will be the new "bar" for your management teams to ratchet you down in the future. Since you have new contracts pending, that will likely take years, so they may have to redouble their outsourcing efforts anew to compete. My apologies for what has occured here, as it is not the majority of the AA pilots who have failed you, but a handful of our "representatives".
As an Eagle refugee, it only means I'm going back home to where I was. Oh, the planes will be bigger, but the "career" will have left the building. It's possible that in a month or so, there will only be 2 legacy carriers (United, Delta). If AA flies E-190's we will get paid less then Jet Blue. Our Airbus rates will be at the bottom of the barrel and scope gutted. The APA claimed they wouldn't send us anything that wasn't Industry Standard and this isn't even close. To those at United and Delta, I can only hope the PILOTS here stand up to their own union and vote this down, for if not, then we will be the new "bar" for your management teams to ratchet you down in the future. Since you have new contracts pending, that will likely take years, so they may have to redouble their outsourcing efforts anew to compete. My apologies for what has occured here, as it is not the majority of the AA pilots who have failed you, but a handful of our "representatives".
11-13-2012 | 07:41 AM
#46
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,088
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From: B757/767
So can you tell me how your reserve schedule looks? Every other month the way the bids come together I am on RSV for 19-20 days in a row. Scheduling will wait till the last minute to use my moveable day off to fix the 24/7 problem.
I'm asking are you guys scheduled for 19 on in a row? I was told the UAL reserve sched is printed. 6 on, 2 or 3 off, 6 on 2-4 off, and so on.
My schedule just shows 19 on in a row. Then 2 or 3 off, for December my reserve choices (last choice) are Dec 1-10 on, 4 days off, 8 on, 4 off
I hate it.
I'm asking are you guys scheduled for 19 on in a row? I was told the UAL reserve sched is printed. 6 on, 2 or 3 off, 6 on 2-4 off, and so on.
My schedule just shows 19 on in a row. Then 2 or 3 off, for December my reserve choices (last choice) are Dec 1-10 on, 4 days off, 8 on, 4 off
I hate it.
We are limited to 4 blocks of days off as well. Generally, even the most junior guys can escape with less then 10 days in a row. Lots of guys do 4 on 3 off so that they are only good for 3 day Europe trips. This way they avoid the 5-7 day Africa trips.
11-13-2012 | 07:43 AM
#47
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,088
Likes: 0
From: B757/767
After review, it is with heavy heart that I must inform all that the APA has hideously failed its pilots again. I'll take my chances going forward into the unknown and will be unquestionably voting no. If it passes, it's clear management will have carte blanche to mangle what's left of a once great airline into regional airline status.
As an Eagle refugee, it only means I'm going back home to where I was. Oh, the planes will be bigger, but the "career" will have left the building. It's possible that in a month or so, there will only be 2 legacy carriers (United, Delta). If AA flies E-190's we will get paid less then Jet Blue. Our Airbus rates will be at the bottom of the barrel and scope gutted. The APA claimed they wouldn't send us anything that wasn't Industry Standard and this isn't even close. To those at United and Delta, I can only hope the PILOTS here stand up to their own union and vote this down, for if not, then we will be the new "bar" for your management teams to ratchet you down in the future. Since you have new contracts pending, that will likely take years, so they may have to redouble their outsourcing efforts anew to compete. My apologies for what has occured here, as it is not the majority of the AA pilots who have failed you, but a handful of our "representatives".
As an Eagle refugee, it only means I'm going back home to where I was. Oh, the planes will be bigger, but the "career" will have left the building. It's possible that in a month or so, there will only be 2 legacy carriers (United, Delta). If AA flies E-190's we will get paid less then Jet Blue. Our Airbus rates will be at the bottom of the barrel and scope gutted. The APA claimed they wouldn't send us anything that wasn't Industry Standard and this isn't even close. To those at United and Delta, I can only hope the PILOTS here stand up to their own union and vote this down, for if not, then we will be the new "bar" for your management teams to ratchet you down in the future. Since you have new contracts pending, that will likely take years, so they may have to redouble their outsourcing efforts anew to compete. My apologies for what has occured here, as it is not the majority of the AA pilots who have failed you, but a handful of our "representatives".
11-13-2012 | 08:07 AM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 737
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I knew it, I f-----g knew it. The "talks" re-convened last month was simply more can-kicking. I haven't read it yet, but if it is a microwaved LBFO, I will flush it. We've come this far. We can go farther.
Here's the deal... I can guarantee that AMR and their giant team of suits examined minutely every aspect of the operation after the contract abrogation. They came up with a brilliant evil plan... "Let's pretend like we are intimidated and call for talks. Watch and record what happens to the operation after the APA comes back to the table." Thus, they now have proof that "something" was happening to their operation during the abrogation period, and if it happens again, they can run sniveling to the Judge and whine "LOOK, LOOK, they are doing it again! Make them stop, make them stop! Fine them $50,000,000, put their leaders in jail!"
We MUST do the nuclear option. Dissolve the APA, disburse the funds to the membership evenly. There is no more union, thus no union to sanction. AMR will have to deal with 10,000 independent contractors.
Here's the deal... I can guarantee that AMR and their giant team of suits examined minutely every aspect of the operation after the contract abrogation. They came up with a brilliant evil plan... "Let's pretend like we are intimidated and call for talks. Watch and record what happens to the operation after the APA comes back to the table." Thus, they now have proof that "something" was happening to their operation during the abrogation period, and if it happens again, they can run sniveling to the Judge and whine "LOOK, LOOK, they are doing it again! Make them stop, make them stop! Fine them $50,000,000, put their leaders in jail!"
We MUST do the nuclear option. Dissolve the APA, disburse the funds to the membership evenly. There is no more union, thus no union to sanction. AMR will have to deal with 10,000 independent contractors.
11-13-2012 | 11:44 AM
#50
SDQ Base Chief
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 6,051
Likes: 33
From: 320 CA
Either way youll be flying E190s at some point. US and JB both have E190s, so you can bet the skies will turn dark with them if mgmt can get a cheap $/hr payscale.
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