AA procedures
02-17-2013, 05:27 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Window seat
Posts: 5,238
FAA bought off on one PA while taxiing - F/A's prepare for takeoff.
FO is busier than the CA during taxi out. PA is minor. CA can always say "make the PA" if he's max'd out.
It's not like we're leaning to the left, with our right hand stretched across to the right canopy rail handle, twisting to the right to look up and over our shoulder, while making a bandit call in the best John Wayne voice we can muster, while pulling 6 G's. The biggest threat is catching your drink with the mike cord.
FO is busier than the CA during taxi out. PA is minor. CA can always say "make the PA" if he's max'd out.
It's not like we're leaning to the left, with our right hand stretched across to the right canopy rail handle, twisting to the right to look up and over our shoulder, while making a bandit call in the best John Wayne voice we can muster, while pulling 6 G's. The biggest threat is catching your drink with the mike cord.
02-17-2013, 07:18 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Right Seat
Posts: 1,458
I jumpseat quite a bit on AA and Eagle. I've noticed quite a bit of difference from US Airways procedures. Before I begin this, I am NOT bashing AA. I am actually ready to come together as one with you.
US Airways procedures place more of an emphasis on flows rather than long checklists. This, in my opinion, is better in the fact that both heads are up and there is less distraction. At AA, the checklist is a mile long. The FO has his head down constantly. While he's doing that, the captain has the tiller in one hand and is reaching way behind him at the same time trying to reach the PA mic.
At Airways, we allow jumpseater bags in the cockpit, regardless of their seating assignment. The FA's are usually good in lending their closet for a jumpseater bag. At AA, my bag has never been in the cockpit, and the FA's nearly always refuse to put it in their closet. And stacking it on top is a big faux pas.
It seems that the US culture is more of an easygoing, laidback environment. AA seems to be more strictly business, by the book, (pardon me, but more of an anal type approach). Not bashing, just two different types of culture.
I think that there will be some major growing pains in the integration.
US Airways procedures place more of an emphasis on flows rather than long checklists. This, in my opinion, is better in the fact that both heads are up and there is less distraction. At AA, the checklist is a mile long. The FO has his head down constantly. While he's doing that, the captain has the tiller in one hand and is reaching way behind him at the same time trying to reach the PA mic.
At Airways, we allow jumpseater bags in the cockpit, regardless of their seating assignment. The FA's are usually good in lending their closet for a jumpseater bag. At AA, my bag has never been in the cockpit, and the FA's nearly always refuse to put it in their closet. And stacking it on top is a big faux pas.
It seems that the US culture is more of an easygoing, laidback environment. AA seems to be more strictly business, by the book, (pardon me, but more of an anal type approach). Not bashing, just two different types of culture.
I think that there will be some major growing pains in the integration.
02-17-2013, 07:19 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,891
Slice,
It's the F/Os PA at every other airline EXCEPT AA for a reason. That reason is because by the time we are out towards the part of the taxiway where that PA is made, the F/O is done with just about all he's got to do and making the PA makes sense as we're just sitting on our hands doing nothing. The other reason is because the CA talking on the PA while taxiing is an FAA violation of sterile. How the FAA ever signed off on AA doing it differently has baffled me for a long time.
Modern CRM and taxiing safety dictates that the CA should ONLY focus on taxiing the airplane and answering checklist responses. Nothing more.
Case in point, we were in SJU last summer taxiing to runway 8. CA said "I'll be off" and went to make his PA. While he was making it, he taxiied right past intersection S2 (full length was closed.) I was desperately gesturing to him to make the right turn and even jumped on the brakes - too late. By the time he clicked off the PA and asked "what the heck's going on?" I was on Tower frequency explaining what had happened.
That would never have happened if it was me making the PA: the CA would still have made the turn onto S2, as it should be.
This is a classic example as to why it needs to change. Is it hard? Of course not - you CAs are used to making it so it's second nature. But it is absolutely not good CRM and bad for taxiing safety. That's why nobody else in the airline world does it our way. Let's face it, this is one of many things AA does differently that makes no sense.
You correctly point out that the CA should delegate it to the F/O if he's too busy. But in 13 years at AA, it's never happened: CAs, just like F/Os, are creatures of habit, and delegating that PA is not even mentioned in Part 1: it's listed under "CA's mandatory PAs."
edit: Texaspilot, right on the money. The answer lies in the years and years of pitting employee groups against each other at AA, vs other airlines that have encouraged employee groups to work together. Hopefully the new AA will go in that direction. However, if you j/s on my flight, you will get a USAirways-style welcome, as well as having your bag stashed up front and a first class seat if there's one open.
It's the F/Os PA at every other airline EXCEPT AA for a reason. That reason is because by the time we are out towards the part of the taxiway where that PA is made, the F/O is done with just about all he's got to do and making the PA makes sense as we're just sitting on our hands doing nothing. The other reason is because the CA talking on the PA while taxiing is an FAA violation of sterile. How the FAA ever signed off on AA doing it differently has baffled me for a long time.
Modern CRM and taxiing safety dictates that the CA should ONLY focus on taxiing the airplane and answering checklist responses. Nothing more.
Case in point, we were in SJU last summer taxiing to runway 8. CA said "I'll be off" and went to make his PA. While he was making it, he taxiied right past intersection S2 (full length was closed.) I was desperately gesturing to him to make the right turn and even jumped on the brakes - too late. By the time he clicked off the PA and asked "what the heck's going on?" I was on Tower frequency explaining what had happened.
That would never have happened if it was me making the PA: the CA would still have made the turn onto S2, as it should be.
This is a classic example as to why it needs to change. Is it hard? Of course not - you CAs are used to making it so it's second nature. But it is absolutely not good CRM and bad for taxiing safety. That's why nobody else in the airline world does it our way. Let's face it, this is one of many things AA does differently that makes no sense.
You correctly point out that the CA should delegate it to the F/O if he's too busy. But in 13 years at AA, it's never happened: CAs, just like F/Os, are creatures of habit, and delegating that PA is not even mentioned in Part 1: it's listed under "CA's mandatory PAs."
edit: Texaspilot, right on the money. The answer lies in the years and years of pitting employee groups against each other at AA, vs other airlines that have encouraged employee groups to work together. Hopefully the new AA will go in that direction. However, if you j/s on my flight, you will get a USAirways-style welcome, as well as having your bag stashed up front and a first class seat if there's one open.
02-17-2013, 07:48 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Right Seat
Posts: 1,458
Many thanks AA73. I may have sounded a little harsh, but it was not my intention. AA and Eagle crews have been nothing but courteous to me and have brought me home to my family numerous times. I was just pointing out observations I have made. If you ever need a ride on one of my flights, I'd be glad to have you. I'm looking forward to joining together with all the AA/ Eagle brothers and sisters.
02-17-2013, 07:55 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Right Seat
Posts: 1,458
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
I remember seeing an AA 757 checklist a few years ago... easily the most cumbersome 757 checklist I've seen. They sure figured out how to make a very simple airplane complicated!
02-17-2013, 08:18 PM
#27
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
I remember seeing an AA 757 checklist a few years ago... easily the most cumbersome 757 checklist I've seen. They sure figured out how to make a very simple airplane complicated!
02-17-2013, 08:21 PM
#28
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
Originally Posted by texaspilot76
I jumpseat quite a bit on AA and Eagle. I've noticed quite a bit of difference from US Airways procedures. Before I begin this, I am NOT bashing AA. I am actually ready to come together as one with you.
US Airways procedures place more of an emphasis on flows rather than long checklists. This, in my opinion, is better in the fact that both heads are up and there is less distraction. At AA, the checklist is a mile long. The FO has his head down constantly. While he's doing that, the captain has the tiller in one hand and is reaching way behind him at the same time trying to reach the PA mic.
At Airways, we allow jumpseater bags in the cockpit, regardless of their seating assignment. The FA's are usually good in lending their closet for a jumpseater bag. At AA, my bag has never been in the cockpit, and the FA's nearly always refuse to put it in their closet. And stacking it on top is a big faux pas.
It seems that the US culture is more of an easygoing, laidback environment. AA seems to be more strictly business, by the book, (pardon me, but more of an anal type approach). Not bashing, just two different types of culture.
I think that there will be some major growing pains in the integration.
US Airways procedures place more of an emphasis on flows rather than long checklists. This, in my opinion, is better in the fact that both heads are up and there is less distraction. At AA, the checklist is a mile long. The FO has his head down constantly. While he's doing that, the captain has the tiller in one hand and is reaching way behind him at the same time trying to reach the PA mic.
At Airways, we allow jumpseater bags in the cockpit, regardless of their seating assignment. The FA's are usually good in lending their closet for a jumpseater bag. At AA, my bag has never been in the cockpit, and the FA's nearly always refuse to put it in their closet. And stacking it on top is a big faux pas.
It seems that the US culture is more of an easygoing, laidback environment. AA seems to be more strictly business, by the book, (pardon me, but more of an anal type approach). Not bashing, just two different types of culture.
I think that there will be some major growing pains in the integration.
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