wiggy

"Carl, I whole heartedly agree with your comments and do not understand how former America West pilots can claim harm for not getting what never happened. The West DFR case is further weekend by the fact that USAPA has positioned West pilots and everyone else to enjoy additional pay, benefits, retirement numbers, fleet growth, job security and overall career progression. Any group of jurors will recognize this as a clear tradeoff at best."

A very interesting phrase..."Not getting what never happened" -Well...yeahhh, I guess so...as if the "not getting" happened in a vacuum...just a typical, inadvertantly unavoidable "administrative" delay in the implimentation of an arbitration award, no doubt. In fact I might even venture to say that the "never happened" is the whole point of the matter...

Something "did happen", the pilots of America West were prevented from being integrated into the whole of the combined USAir pilot group in a manner that was deemed fair and equitable by an experienced neutral arbitrator...The USAir pilots reneged on their "good faith" promise to abide by the award. Now they try to make the claim that since their design to circumvent the legal outcome has been thus far successful, a period of several years has elapsed and now through the exigencies of an impending merger, that somehow the previous binding legal result of the Nic award is rendered moot, or invalidated. Then they have the temerity to imply that their favored integration methodology, -one that was rejected outright by a neutral arbitrator is somehow, by force of will and circumstance and "constitution and by-laws" the only legitimate solution to the impasse...hmmm, seems like somewhere along the line they arrived at that impasse before...here is a hint: USAir East pilots listen carefully....you do not get to decide what your seniority will be.

As for ripeness, the impending merger with AA was not contemplated by the judge as a possible means to show harm to the West group. So the ripeness issue, besides being fodder on these threads for armchair lawyers with an obsession for legal technicalities that subvert and distract attention from the heart of the issue, will come to a head with the presentation of the AA and US seniority lists for integration. Seniority list integration is a zero-sum game...one group's gain in seniority is exactly, mathematically equivalent to another group's loss of seniority. Thus US East's threatened DOH list presentation amply demonstrates one need not pull the trigger on a loaded gun aimed with quite obvious malicious intent to reasonably demonstrate harm to the West group.

And Flybywire, with "USAPA has positioned West pilots and everyone else to enjoy additional pay, benefits, retirement numbers, fleet growth, job security and overall career progression." -with that "positioning" of the West pilots by USAPA, you and I must have a different interpretation of what constitutes a sort of implied "de-facto benevolence" on the the part of USAPA towards the West pilots. It is my understanding that the West brought higher pay rates to the merger, no furloughees and that now, as a direct consequence of lack of implementation of the Nic the West group has suffered downgrades and furloughs exclusively from their group....In fact, the "positioning" you refer to appears to effectively do exactly the opposite of what you so disingenuously imply to be the case...particularly where it concerns "job security" and "overall career progression". Then there is the idea that the East has cut off their nose to spite the West for years where it concerns contract improvements, all for the sake of avoiding the results of a "previously agreed to", "binding" arbitrated award.

R57 relay

SO WHAT? When a few guys flew airplanes into buildings back in '01 I was a blockholding F100 captain making around $185 and hour. Things change cacti. My company was not sustainable in it's form back then, yours wasn't in 2008. It just a fact and you have been told that by the guy running it, and that will be running the new AA, over and over and over and over again. Geez!

You never answered my question. Were you or were you not warned by ALPA and they company about the dangers of the path you were taking with the TA we all agreed to? I'll save you the time-YES YOU WERE! Before the fact. After the fact you want to whine about it.

It's a good thing you didn't lose the 50 or so hulls that the east did. Oh, and BTW, be careful about wishing for those 190s. They don't count towards our min block hours, but they would if put out west.

R57 relay

I have it on PDF. I can email it if you want to PM me.

R57 relay

I have no idea what they have planned.

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I don't have a crystal ball cacti, so I don't know. But I'm sure you do, so go ahead and tell me.

R57 relay

Did you know that in 2005 US was massively understaffed and that had we been staffed at the same numbers that you guys were using several hundred more guys would have "brought a seat" with them? Nicolau did, he just didn't do anything about it.

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I wasn't talking about the arbitration Bean, I was talking about the TA. But since you brought it up, if the arbitration was not flawed, why is a panel of 3 arbitrators all the rage these days. John Prater told me the Nic was flawed, the guy at the ALPA dog and pony show told me it was flawed. They just said "Sorry, but we can do anything about it for you. We'll fix it for next time."

R57 relay

I don't know Carl. A lot of guys think Nicolau was punishing the east for the Trump SLI and sometimes that's the only logical conclusion I can come to.

I'm not sure if it was cacti or another west soothsayer, but someone said that the arbitration world was a small one and they would punish the east for the mockery it has made of George Nicolau's crown jewel. And that was on the internet, so you know what that means.

R57 relay

That means agreeing with cacti whether he is correct or not.

R57 relay

You chopped off your cut and paste a little early. Shocker. Here is what Judge Silver said right below what you quoted above:

"But being “bound” by the Transition Agreement has very little meaning in the context

of the present case. It is undisputed that the Transition Agreement can be modified at any

time “by written agreement of [USAPA] and the [US Airways].” (Doc. 156-3 at 38).

Moreover, USAPA and US Airways are now engaged in negotiations for an entirely new

collective bargaining agreement and there is no obvious impediment to USAPA and US

Airways negotiating and agreeing upon any seniority regime they wish. As explained by the

Ninth Circuit, “seniority rights are creations of the collective bargaining agreement, and so

may be revised or abrogated by later negotiated changes in this agreement.”

Now, you say the Nic lives in the TA, right? When does the TA die?