Fleet basing post merger
04-29-2013, 04:27 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: 737 CA MIA
Posts: 1,042
Originally Posted by PinnacleFO
I heard a rumor that the airbus deliveries on the American side have been halted for a couple of months while they figure out the fleet plan.
I haven't heard that. I believe Aug 31 or Sept 1 is first pax flights. They are currently training for the A319. And filling advanced vacancies training May, June, July and Aug.
No dog in this fight just going for humor......
04-29-2013, 08:42 AM
#25
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Originally Posted by Errbus
Jokes aside, anyone have any actual educated guesses of what's going to happen?
04-29-2013, 08:51 AM
#26
Flies With The Hat On
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Right of the Left Seat
Posts: 1,339
Originally Posted by teddyballgame
When Parker first started wooing the AA pilots, didn't he promise them a seven-year fence?
Did that ever make it into writing in the final MOU?
If so, that would suggest that any AA aircraft put into a US base (like the -800 into PHL example above) would have to be flown by AA pilots, right? And vice versa.
I suppose the work-around would be to just have AA pilots from existing AA domiciles RON in the US bases from which those AA aircraft would operate.
Did that ever make it into writing in the final MOU?
If so, that would suggest that any AA aircraft put into a US base (like the -800 into PHL example above) would have to be flown by AA pilots, right? And vice versa.
I suppose the work-around would be to just have AA pilots from existing AA domiciles RON in the US bases from which those AA aircraft would operate.
https://public.alliedpilots.org/apa/...atest-QAs.aspx
https://public.alliedpilots.org/apa/...atest-QAs.aspx
https://public.alliedpilots.org/apa/...tegration.aspx
https://public.alliedpilots.org/apa/...f-the-MOU.aspx
https://public.alliedpilots.org/apa/...tegration.aspx
Originally Posted by CanoePilot
NO fences at all.
It is much more efficient and profitable for merged airlines to minimize fences. USAPA/APA pilots should seek every opportunity to avoid fences.
Many commuters will gain tremendous quality of life improvements by being able to transfer across fleets. Imagine the amount of time families across the newAmerican pilot group would recoup!
My personal opinion is that any merger should have wide body fences that are limited to 3 years and no fences should be established for narrow body aircraft. The net effect is a 5+ year fence from today with maximum consideration for the company and commuters.
newAmerican is scheduled to grow in Asia/Africa/Oceania and combines carrier retirements far outpace DAL/UAL in the near term. What more do you really need?
04-29-2013, 10:03 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: A319/20/21 FO
Posts: 292
Originally Posted by flybywire44
SLI will not be implemented for at least 2.3-2.5 years—this is already a fence of sorts. How much more of a fence do some APA/USAPA pilots think they need? NWA had fences for an extended period, which hurt commuters and extended grievances 20 years down the road.
It is much more efficient and profitable for merged airlines to minimize fences. USAPA/APA pilots should seek every opportunity to avoid fences.
Many commuters will gain tremendous quality of life improvements by being able to transfer across fleets. Imagine the amount of time families across the newAmerican pilot group would recoup!
My personal opinion is that any merger should have wide body fences that are limited to 3 years and no fences should be established for narrow body aircraft. The net effect is a 5+ year fence from today with maximum consideration for the company and commuters.
newAmerican is scheduled to grow in Asia/Africa/Oceania and combines carrier retirements far outpace DAL/UAL in the near term. What more do you really need?
It is much more efficient and profitable for merged airlines to minimize fences. USAPA/APA pilots should seek every opportunity to avoid fences.
Many commuters will gain tremendous quality of life improvements by being able to transfer across fleets. Imagine the amount of time families across the newAmerican pilot group would recoup!
My personal opinion is that any merger should have wide body fences that are limited to 3 years and no fences should be established for narrow body aircraft. The net effect is a 5+ year fence from today with maximum consideration for the company and commuters.
newAmerican is scheduled to grow in Asia/Africa/Oceania and combines carrier retirements far outpace DAL/UAL in the near term. What more do you really need?
Frankly, I think that reading most of the recent arbitration decisions is highly informative to what our eventual list will look like. Minimal widebody fences and a ratioed integration of some variety. DOH, long-term fences, and significant C&Rs haven't been used to integrate pilots since Northwest-Republic, and the results of that list proved to be an enforcement nightmare.
04-29-2013, 10:31 AM
#28
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Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Well, without fences a large number of junior west pilots (as well as East F/O's) could pole-vault directly to AA's wide bodies in both seats over long-time native AA F/O's and even some narrowbody captains in a finely feathered percentile SLI. That would seem to be a windfall. To minimize or eliminate fences, the arbitrators would have to do a more coarsly feathered SLI, with "chunks" of various AA/East/West pilots.
I understand some at U are drooling uncontrollably at the thougt of unobstructed access to AA's larger wide body fleet and future options, but again, that would seem a windfall. One could make a similar argument for narrowbody captains seats as well and arguing that a benefit of domicile convenience should override that is misguided IMO. Another option would be a "TTC" (Time-to-Captain) and an "EWA" (Expected Widebody Access) formula that could adopted to quantify each pilots career progression expectation to those poitions at time of merge (based on his/her carriers orders/options) and that would modify HOW finely the feathering of the merged list would go, so as not to provide a windfall for any sub-segment of pilots.
I understand some at U are drooling uncontrollably at the thougt of unobstructed access to AA's larger wide body fleet and future options, but again, that would seem a windfall. One could make a similar argument for narrowbody captains seats as well and arguing that a benefit of domicile convenience should override that is misguided IMO. Another option would be a "TTC" (Time-to-Captain) and an "EWA" (Expected Widebody Access) formula that could adopted to quantify each pilots career progression expectation to those poitions at time of merge (based on his/her carriers orders/options) and that would modify HOW finely the feathering of the merged list would go, so as not to provide a windfall for any sub-segment of pilots.
04-29-2013, 11:32 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: Doing what you do, for less.
Posts: 1,792
Originally Posted by eaglefly
Well, without fences a large number of junior west pilots (as well as East F/O's) could pole-vault directly to AA's wide bodies in both seats over long-time native AA F/O's and even some narrowbody captains in a finely feathered percentile SLI. That would seem to be a windfall. To minimize or eliminate fences, the arbitrators would have to do a more coarsly feathered SLI, with "chunks" of various AA/East/West pilots.
I understand some at U are drooling uncontrollably at the thougt of unobstructed access to AA's larger wide body fleet and future options, but again, that would seem a windfall. One could make a similar argument for narrowbody captains seats as well and arguing that a benefit of domicile convenience should override that is misguided IMO. Another option would be a "TTC" (Time-to-Captain) and an "EWA" (Expected Widebody Access) formula that could adopted to quantify each pilots career progression expectation to those poitions at time of merge (based on his/her carriers orders/options) and that would modify HOW finely the feathering of the merged list would go, so as not to provide a windfall for any sub-segment of pilots.
I understand some at U are drooling uncontrollably at the thougt of unobstructed access to AA's larger wide body fleet and future options, but again, that would seem a windfall. One could make a similar argument for narrowbody captains seats as well and arguing that a benefit of domicile convenience should override that is misguided IMO. Another option would be a "TTC" (Time-to-Captain) and an "EWA" (Expected Widebody Access) formula that could adopted to quantify each pilots career progression expectation to those poitions at time of merge (based on his/her carriers orders/options) and that would modify HOW finely the feathering of the merged list would go, so as not to provide a windfall for any sub-segment of pilots.
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