Thedude

Those 106 seaters are in a market by themselves, all biz class seats.
Competing with the UAL PS service..

The 321 doesn't like to go up and then once you get it there it doesn't want to come down.

PilotJ3

Well...

There we have it... PSA and PDT will be used to whipsaw with AA. They want "flow", but don't realize that they just screw themselves and mainline also.

Good luck, Envoy is holding the line while others passed it. I would say that Envoy will be shut down in a couple of years.

dash8

we have flow at pdt, not sure how we're screwing mainline when they gave it to us

and envoy is trying to hold the line by trying to strangle us in their last rejected offer to aa

Surprise

Sounds like Viagra.

PilotJ3

You just don't see it. The savings PDT and PSA are giving to Parker are the ones used against AA.

They will inflate PSA and PDT, people will be stuck in pay 12/4 with the promise of flow.

Envoy flow is about reducing senior payroll while creating savings with the 12/4 cap. PSA and PDT flow is about reducing payroll but at the same time growing the airline with the illusion of career progression.

The flow is a tool for Managment, it haven't worked at envoy in the last 14 years and won't work today.

I don't know what you mean by "trying to strangle us in their last rejected offer to aa". We rejected the Bscale 3 times, while PDT and PSA accept the first offer.

PDT, PSA and Envoy are pawns in the Parker game.

Saabs

Think you rejected a C scale as your already on a B scale, which is what regionals are unfortunately.

PilotJ3

True, can't argue.

7576FO

AA's are Biz/Coach Plus/and coach.
7576FO

TRZ06

I think you are exactly right. I for one do not blame them for doing what is best for them right now, but ultimately there will be consequences that will affect them. If flow through is the main motivation it will be meaningless as more mainline flying is replaced.
Secondly, I think eventually we will see an erosion of scope from all the majors in exchange for higher pay. Again, short term thinking from those in their last decade or so who see the direction of airline flying, larger regional jets and proportionately larger mainline jets but less upward movement for both.

Surprise

I'd like to think there won't be any more scope sales. The current union leadership claims that it's non-negotiable, so they seem to understand. And the next decade will see many new mainline pilots who were negatively affected by the regional airline C-scale (B-scale seems a little generous). Of course, pilots have been known to suffer from myopia when a little money is dangled in front of them, so we'll see.

As for profit sharing, that's not a deal-breaker for me. It is theoretically possible to have industry leading pay without it. However, I would like to see some assurance that every pilot's bottom line W2 compensation is in line with his or her respective peer at United or Delta. If the company wants to contractually lock themselves in to paying at a level which would still meet or exceed what the other guys make, including their profit sharing, well then fine. But I think to do that would require a lot of complicated legal triggers to make sure it happens, or just a really high base rate.

I think it's probably easier for everyone if we have a system comparable to Delta's. Lots of money guaranteed, and if, God forbid, the company does well then we can share in that, too.

And no scope sales.