AA Reserve
01-16-2015 | 05:47 AM
#21
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Joined: Jul 2005
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From: fo
And yet again the APA went for pay rates and nothing more.
Aren't the AA guys tired of this crap?
At this point I'd rather vote no, and shore up all the holes in the contract come 2018/2019. Forget the large raise, I'd be much happier with parity and a real contract, not the POS commuter Green Book.
Aren't the AA guys tired of this crap?
At this point I'd rather vote no, and shore up all the holes in the contract come 2018/2019. Forget the large raise, I'd be much happier with parity and a real contract, not the POS commuter Green Book.
The problem with voting no is we still don't get any of this now and without the pay, it is just that much more you have to negotiate for in 2020. If you think APA will be ok with being 30% behind UAL and delta at that point your naive, we will just come full circle to where we are now. If the economy isn't as strong as it is now we get nothing again.
I'm just not optimistic of getting this major contract with pay and every other item in 5 years as I don't think the world economy will allow it.
01-16-2015 | 06:11 AM
#23
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Joined: Jan 2015
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There are plenty of rules, 2 8 X 10 glossy color graphs, a 4 page flow chart and a 64 page Reserve User Guide
And that's just the stuff that the pilots standing reserve are given
Scheduling has a whole 'nother book of past practice and procedures that they use, and you can't see
Even with all that suck... I still only fly 20-30 hrs per month
Folks who want the $$ can usually break guarantee, and often max out
And that's just the stuff that the pilots standing reserve are given
Scheduling has a whole 'nother book of past practice and procedures that they use, and you can't see
Even with all that suck... I still only fly 20-30 hrs per month
Folks who want the $$ can usually break guarantee, and often max out
01-16-2015 | 06:33 AM
#24
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Joined: Mar 2014
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The problem with this theory is that is what should have occurred here with the jcba. No pay raise but get some key improvements to the bancruptcy green book contract addressing rsv, guaranteed days off for block holders, min calendar day, 321 pay, ltd, life insurance etc....
The problem with voting no is we still don't get any of this now and without the pay, it is just that much more you have to negotiate for in 2020. If you think APA will be ok with being 30% behind UAL and delta at that point your naive, we will just come full circle to where we are now. If the economy isn't as strong as it is now we get nothing again.
I'm just not optimistic of getting this major contract with pay and every other item in 5 years as I don't think the world economy will allow it.
The problem with voting no is we still don't get any of this now and without the pay, it is just that much more you have to negotiate for in 2020. If you think APA will be ok with being 30% behind UAL and delta at that point your naive, we will just come full circle to where we are now. If the economy isn't as strong as it is now we get nothing again.
I'm just not optimistic of getting this major contract with pay and every other item in 5 years as I don't think the world economy will allow it.
I agree with your stance, by 2019 both DAL and UAL would've had new contracts which would well eclipse ours after the pay parity. We're essentially getting pay parity on a 5/6 year old contracts.
To even come close to their rates at that point we're going to have to sell a whole heck of a lot. Probably scope included. With the hard-on 2/3 of our group has for pay rates anything else just won't matter.
01-16-2015 | 06:40 AM
#25
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Joined: Jul 2005
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From: fo
I agree with your stance, by 2019 both DAL and UAL would've had new contracts which would well eclipse ours after the pay parity. We're essentially getting pay parity on a 5/6 year old contracts.
To even come close to their rates at that point we're going to have to sell a whole heck of a lot. Probably scope included. With the hard-on 2/3 of our group has for pay rates anything else just won't matter.
To even come close to their rates at that point we're going to have to sell a whole heck of a lot. Probably scope included. With the hard-on 2/3 of our group has for pay rates anything else just won't matter.
Scope is the last real leverage that I think we have going into 2019/20 whether we vote yes or no. It may not even be worth that much by then either depending on what happens with the regionals and if mainline takes back that flying.
01-16-2015 | 06:59 AM
#26
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Joined: Jan 2015
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The JCBA was never the vehicle for fixing all of that. It was defined by the MOU and limited by the conditions of the arbitration.
Voting No in 2012 got us the 1113 Term Sheet
It was the operation disintegrating that brought about LBFO2 and the 2012 CBA, then CLA, then MOU, then MTA, now JCBA
Voting No gets us arb, and Best Case, the MTA, possibly early openers in 2017( unless the AAG Board decides to "give" is the "deal" again...) and a Section 6 process constrained by the RLA and beginning with 2-3 years of talks about Parking and Passports before they even begin to discuss TheBigTicketItems.
There is a path to better, but it is not "Just Say No"
JMO, of course, validated by history
Voting No in 2012 got us the 1113 Term Sheet
It was the operation disintegrating that brought about LBFO2 and the 2012 CBA, then CLA, then MOU, then MTA, now JCBA
Voting No gets us arb, and Best Case, the MTA, possibly early openers in 2017( unless the AAG Board decides to "give" is the "deal" again...) and a Section 6 process constrained by the RLA and beginning with 2-3 years of talks about Parking and Passports before they even begin to discuss TheBigTicketItems.
There is a path to better, but it is not "Just Say No"
JMO, of course, validated by history
01-16-2015 | 07:14 AM
#27
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Joined: Apr 2011
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And yet again the APA went for pay rates and nothing more.
Aren't the AA guys tired of this crap?
At this point I'd rather vote no, and shore up all the holes in the contract come 2018/2019. Forget the large raise, I'd be much happier with parity and a real contract, not the POS commuter Green Book.
Aren't the AA guys tired of this crap?
At this point I'd rather vote no, and shore up all the holes in the contract come 2018/2019. Forget the large raise, I'd be much happier with parity and a real contract, not the POS commuter Green Book.
The definition of insanity.. Doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result.
Also known as... Keep voting YES to management's first offer, while expecting Management to "do the right thing" because they respect you.
Insanity.
01-16-2015 | 07:47 AM
#28
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 316
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I actually feel really bad for you legacy airways guys. You have no idea what you're getting into. Prolonged reserve at most airlines cause divorces, at AA it lead to suicides.
The "green book" is a gutter trash of a contract that rivals the ****tiest regionals. There is NO QOL at AA unless you're top 20% in status. What's mind boggling is that some (maybe even most, we'll find out on the 30th) are willing to trade the only leverage that we have, for not even an industry standard compensation package, instead of QOL items.
I actually don't even want to get into listing all the deficits in the contract because it's just too time consuming.
East and west guys, you're in for a shock and awe.
Welcome to hell
The "green book" is a gutter trash of a contract that rivals the ****tiest regionals. There is NO QOL at AA unless you're top 20% in status. What's mind boggling is that some (maybe even most, we'll find out on the 30th) are willing to trade the only leverage that we have, for not even an industry standard compensation package, instead of QOL items.
I actually don't even want to get into listing all the deficits in the contract because it's just too time consuming.
East and west guys, you're in for a shock and awe.
Welcome to hell
01-16-2015 | 08:10 AM
#30
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 316
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