bottoms up

As a LCAL guy I will disagree with some of what pilot64golfer said a few pages earlier, the LCAL SLI list was basically a 1 for 1 all down the list. This placed pretty much most LUAL guys hired after 2/17/2007 on the bottom of the list after LCAL ran out of guys using the 1 for 1 ratio.

The LUAL proposal was much more methodical in their proposal. Which someone on the LUAL side can comment more on.

The final award was pretty much the LUAL proposal with I believe a 2-5% shift in some of the weighing. It did end up placing LUAL furlough guys ahead of active LCAL guys. But the caveat to that was I believe if a furlough happens in certain time period (2 or 5 years perhaps can't remember) those LUAL furloughs will be first to go.

The LCAL side bought into the "shoot for the moon" theory thinking they will find something in the middle road. It didn't happen.

Like Golfer said..There is NO negotiating. It is an arbitration not mediation. I guess the LCAL guys missed that meeting.

The good thing is ours is over and done with.
Happy Integration!

eaglefly

I think our result will be similar to yours with the LAA proposal, but some shifting in certain places. The LAA proposal is also very methodical in its argument and includes a lot of foundation for their position, more so than the other two positions.

As I've previously stated over the last 18 months, this is going to be THE most complicated SLI in history and with today's announcement, it just more complicated. Many West pilots are on our union forum now doing victory dances and high-fiving each other over there and that's fine, USAPA had it coming, but that is NOT the same thing as using that as a springboard to validating a more advantageous position at the expense of LAA pilots. In fact, in reading the LAA proposal (which reads like an arbitrators award itself) and includes a lot of research and due diligence, I think the LAA committee was conservative in many areas of their proposed SLI. I got the impression that they were aware of the past with TWA and went for a more conservative position then they could have. Of course now that position may be altered somewhat if the Nic is the only foundation for an opposing proposal.

I previously stated the LAA committee would argue heavily for a result that protects "pre-merger career expectations" and they are. I previously said they would not advocate for the Nic, but would not exclude it either and they did, punting that issue to the arbitrators. I previously said that since ALL committees would HAVE to produce a integrated list for consideration, the LAA list would either HAVE to include the Nic in pure form or not and I believed they wouldn't. They did not. Today's announcement simply changes what the two sides not previously LAA must present and may now become one. Further delay is possible. Fences are now more likely, but not certain.

Laker24

why are fences more likely? Nothing has changed in the career expectations of a US Airways or AA pilot. I think the big fear for most AA pilots is that relatively younger pilots from the West will now be placed higher up the final list and potentially block AA pilots going forward. Understandable. You don't seem to care about the injustice these west pilots have faced for the last 8 years. You do seem to concerned about their position being restored to what they are rightfully owed. The whole point is that group 2 FO you referenced is only a FO because he was the victim of a crime perpetrated by the East.

Dave Odell the very bottom West pilot on the NIC list was placed at 14,999 on the USAPA proposal and the pilot who was one number junior to Dave Odell was given a seniority number of 6,XXX on the East proposal. Now that will have to be fixed to put Dave Odell one number senior to Collelo. Arguing anything different will just make your committee loose credibility in the eyes of the arbitrator.

eaglefly

My point exactly. IF that West F/O is now to get some kind of "retroactive" benefit from mandatory inclusion of the Nic NOW, exactly WHAT mechanism ALLOWED that benefit to occur ?

If you said THIS MERGER, you'd be correct. Without it, West pilots would be in no different a position then they were in on December 8, 2013. Hey good for you, but IF it is at OUR expense, NOT good for us. That is what the arbitrators will weigh in using the Nic and IF using it, how to compensate LAA pilots so as to prevent harm to them and paying for your retroactive benefit. WE didn't do that to you and we shouldn't be the ones to foot the bill now.

No, they will likely bring up the disparities this development (a mandatory inclusion of the Nic) NOW creates and consider whatever mitegators will be required to ensure a "fair and equitable" final SLI. Again, that MAY require fences or possibly a different feathering mechanism to accomplish. As it stands now, the Wests list (based on a pure Nic) puts West F/O's many thousands of numbers senior to similarly situated LAA pilots giving them MANY years of bidding power compounding the financial disparity that they received ALREADY due to immediate pay increases as a result of the merger. Don't confuse what the East has done or chooses to do with what the LAA pilots have a right to expect as far as protection and maintenance of their pre-merger career expectations.

Laker24

I understand your argument. i don't agree with it but obviously the award won't be decided on this message board. Hopefully when it's all said and done we can find a way to all be civil to each other and make the work environment tolerable. First round on me.

eaglefly

Trust me, I'm not taking it personally. I'm not so sure about future East/West relations though. That could be a toughie. I think a delay might just be necessary as all........er, now both sides might have to reformulate proposed lists, otherwise it would seem to muddy things up more than help them, but I don't know.

Isn't USAPA first ?

If they just don't show on Monday, I suppose that would do it. I'm scratching my head how they can even formulate anything at this point considering this development. The 9th just threw a major wrench into the whole thing. The only bright side is that Parker may have just thrown a scotch bottle through his office window as this may gum up his schedule.

Route66

Parker doesn't care whether there is or isn't an integrated seniority list. He has someone else to lay the blame on (the Ninth) and the three lists will just take longer to integrate. Save computer cycles, so to speak. There are enough here now to take the Kirby last/best final offer in 2020 or keep the same ole, same ole. In any case you're not seeing a seniority list now until mid/late next year and implementation late 2017.

And the world turns.......

eaglefly

My condolences as today's news must be a devastating blow. Clearly, USAPA is now gurgling its last death rattle. Not sure what will result of this, but an announcement of delay wouldn't surprise me in the least. The 9th just knocked over this apple cart.

Route66

What I will say is the disunity that all of this has caused will continue for many years to come and simply give the power to call the contract shots squarely into the Companies hands. Even now, the Delta MEC is contending with their perceived inferiority of the latest offer from the Delta management. I guess the love affair is over. They only used AAL as a roadmap.

Parking Brake

Now there's something I can agree with regarding this matter.

So far all three lists seem weighted towards their interests. I just take it as their opening bargaining position.

We've got three arbitrators to hash through the respective methodologies.