Saw the Eagle Flow thru Lawsuit
11-16-2016 | 10:45 AM
#21
You scratched my anchor
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,126
Likes: 85
There's a guy (hired after merger) complaining about being junior to third listers (hired before merger). Nothing surprises me anymore.
11-19-2016 | 05:37 AM
#22
With the Rebel Forces.
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
From: Observing
OK, It is a bad contract. We work a lot more. I've been at AA since early 99.
In MIA since 01.
Our last contract was 1997. There was no 2000 contract since we voted NO to that in Aug 2001. (that was the only time I wanted to vote yes, but my friends persuaded me to wait for DAL+3)
Then 2003 TA with the threat "Hey we're on the courthouse steps to declare if you don't sign this" crafted by APA and AA.
Then Full court Kick the Can, we never got an 08.,09,10 OR any contract until 2012.
Then the 2012 exit BK MTA Merger transition agreement.
I'm not a company guy. I'm engaged. I always have been. I dialed over 160 pilots to discuss NO on LBFO1 and NO on LBFO2.
LBFO 2 passed in a 74% YES
I support an ALPA transition.
The Green Book has always been very difficult to read. We used to publish a kitbag contract. I would carry that with me and actually read it thru on the longer legs.
I am not defending this contract, but it is better than our 2003 contract which we were working on until 2012.
So there's your history lesson. APA has always been weak. APA has always had the worst contracts of all the majors.
APA is working on getting a mid contract adjustment. USAir pilots tells us not a chance.
I know form working at AA that the only time we get something fixed is when we INUNDATE CP's and VP's VM and email.
If we don't complain enmass they think everything is OK.
So Historically we haven't had many contracts since 1997.
In MIA since 01.
Our last contract was 1997. There was no 2000 contract since we voted NO to that in Aug 2001. (that was the only time I wanted to vote yes, but my friends persuaded me to wait for DAL+3)
Then 2003 TA with the threat "Hey we're on the courthouse steps to declare if you don't sign this" crafted by APA and AA.
Then Full court Kick the Can, we never got an 08.,09,10 OR any contract until 2012.
Then the 2012 exit BK MTA Merger transition agreement.
I'm not a company guy. I'm engaged. I always have been. I dialed over 160 pilots to discuss NO on LBFO1 and NO on LBFO2.
LBFO 2 passed in a 74% YES
I support an ALPA transition.
The Green Book has always been very difficult to read. We used to publish a kitbag contract. I would carry that with me and actually read it thru on the longer legs.
I am not defending this contract, but it is better than our 2003 contract which we were working on until 2012.
So there's your history lesson. APA has always been weak. APA has always had the worst contracts of all the majors.
APA is working on getting a mid contract adjustment. USAir pilots tells us not a chance.
I know form working at AA that the only time we get something fixed is when we INUNDATE CP's and VP's VM and email.
If we don't complain enmass they think everything is OK.
So Historically we haven't had many contracts since 1997.
Wait what?
An admission? The contract is bad after all?
Your credibility warning light is flickering sir.
And as far as me not "making" it to AA----- I THANK GOD every day!!!!!!!!
11-19-2016 | 05:42 AM
#23
With the Rebel Forces.
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
From: Observing
jcountry and bassslayer seem to understand things pretty clearly here, other people just don't seem to get it.
The TOP 5% of the seniority list guys--that's what APA cares about. Always have and always will.
The TOP 5% of the seniority list guys--that's what APA cares about. Always have and always will.
11-19-2016 | 08:04 AM
#25
Thread Starter
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,042
Likes: 0
From: 737 CA MIA
bootleg was Eagle, must have screwed up his career to have retired there and possibly no college degree.
But one time at band camp he got his feelings hurt over a Real AA pilot and his Scope badge.
11-21-2016 | 05:58 AM
#26
With the Rebel Forces.
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
From: Observing
9-11-01 screwed up my "airline" career, but I got a much better one.
11-22-2016 | 09:10 AM
#27
Thread Starter
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,042
Likes: 0
From: 737 CA MIA
11-24-2016 | 11:39 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,707
Likes: 0
Flying along, the first officer hands me a copy of the Eagle Flow thru lawsuit.
The last flow thrus to actually sign the flow thru (December 2001). Those that month that actually signed a flow thru that month were delayed until approx. 2010-2011-2013.
This guy NEVER signed a flow thru. He was the first of 150 to not sign a flow thru agreement to be arbitrator awarded a free flow thru.
Then after him, there was the 825 free flow thrus awarded by an arbitrator after him.
He says his occupational date is 2008. He didn't arrive at LAA until early 2013.
He thinks he should be senior to ALL TWA FO's and senior to ALL on SLI since 2008. Even though he didn't begin training at AA until 2013.
He is suing for 2 years pay increase. Since the company decided to offer 2 years extra pay credit for ANY furloughee that returned before Dec 2013.
He then says he hopes this won't BK APA. He says the lawsuit could be worth 40M.
I was pretty speechless and offered. We bought TWA Jan 2001. Early 2002 TWA was wearing the AA uniform, using the AA call sign on ATC.
He was suggesting that since TWA was a LLC until 2003. He should be senior to ALL TWA FO's.
THIS GUY NEVER SIGNED A FLOW THRU AGGREEMENT
The last flow thrus to actually sign the flow thru (December 2001). Those that month that actually signed a flow thru that month were delayed until approx. 2010-2011-2013.
This guy NEVER signed a flow thru. He was the first of 150 to not sign a flow thru agreement to be arbitrator awarded a free flow thru.
Then after him, there was the 825 free flow thrus awarded by an arbitrator after him.
He says his occupational date is 2008. He didn't arrive at LAA until early 2013.
He thinks he should be senior to ALL TWA FO's and senior to ALL on SLI since 2008. Even though he didn't begin training at AA until 2013.
He is suing for 2 years pay increase. Since the company decided to offer 2 years extra pay credit for ANY furloughee that returned before Dec 2013.
He then says he hopes this won't BK APA. He says the lawsuit could be worth 40M.
I was pretty speechless and offered. We bought TWA Jan 2001. Early 2002 TWA was wearing the AA uniform, using the AA call sign on ATC.
He was suggesting that since TWA was a LLC until 2003. He should be senior to ALL TWA FO's.
THIS GUY NEVER SIGNED A FLOW THRU AGGREEMENT
11-24-2016 | 12:44 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 175
Likes: 0
From: Violin on the Envoy-tanic
There were (are) a small group of individuals that will never be happy about how the flow-through turns out. First it was the Letter 3 Collision (L3C) led by Tiny, then there was another attempt at a flow through lawsuit, with a few guys refusing to make a selection on the Envoy company 824 selection web page because of some perceived loophole/grievance, etc, et al. Basically you can't please everyone all the time. The common thread was usually that they wanted something more for themselves personally, and to hell with everyone else. But those type of people exist in every group.
Of course, if it was Tony G., that explains it all right there.
Of course, if it was Tony G., that explains it all right there.
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