Originally Posted by R57 relay

A Delta guy that actually knows what theirs pays.



Like I said, we used to have min day here, not average day. We got that from Delta in, I believe '91.



The west's long rate was different too. Pretty sure it paid an additional day when you had a 24 hour or greater RON. USAPA TA'ed that, the APA ignored it.

Originally Posted by mainlineAF

DL has 5:15 average calendar day. That has nothing to do with this discussion.

So if you used to have a true min calendar day I don't know how you are still confused between the two?

The west long rig would have been nice too but we screwed that ho.

Originally Posted by R57 relay

Ok ups, I'm on an iPad so I'm going to give you the condensed version.

On block representation. We're independent, so we could come up with whatever we want, right? Maybe easier said than done, but in theory. My thought was that a smaller board that only does board work would be more efficient in cost and progress and, if elected by guys in seniority band, be more understanding and responsive. So I was thinking of making the bands so it roughly cuts the board in half. A rep for every 1500 or so, bands adjustable as need for an odd number of reps. All the other work they do like CP representation would be handled by volunteers trained for that. It may be an awful idea, but what we've done has produced great results, IMHO. Maybe that is changing under Carey. A new MIA reps says it is and I hope so.

I like Carey and what he says resonates with us. I just don't think it will work with Isom. I spent a little time with him and quite a bit of correspondence and he is not the kind to easily bend to pressure, but I think is reasonable when brought good ideas. So, what would I do?

The first step to fixing a problem is admitting you have one. As a non-native AA guy, I see one massively screwed up airline, union and pilot group. The is last place there should be any ancestor worship and that is alive and well throughout AA/APA. So I'd say we've got to overhaul this place and we will look at what everyone else does AND what our other legacy carriers did in order to find the best possible. We ignored LUS guys and what they had in their contracts. We negotiated behind their backs. We have not treated our fellow pilots with respect and empathy, with the worst being TWA. That stops now. But the reasons why we are here are past and we can't undo them, only learn. The biggest thing we have to do is realize that we have a contract and we operate under the RLA. We have no legal recourse to change that outside of section six. The only changes that can take place are if the company and union agree to it. This company is run by numbers guys and it is very hard for them to see the intangibles. So I see two ways to fix things. Work with the company, showing them how we can help, or the pilots ON THEIR OWN take the financial hit and decide that it is not worth working all the hours at an airline that doesn't value them. That means no vacation float, do not fly unsafe trips, no pick up and no premium. But it truly has to be the pilots that decide that, the union cannot tell you to do that. Look at the USAPA work action and the federal judges injunction. The deck is stacked in management's favor with the RLA. A judge can order a union, but not dictate the enthusiasm of 14,000 pilots.

I see this union doing what we've tried for years. Many of leaders rightly say "If we band together we can get everything they want! " They are correct, but when have you ever seen that happen? AA did to a degree when they had the Chp 11 sword hanging over their necks, but we are hardly in that situation now. What I see are guys angling for as much premium as they can get.

I'll give you one example of old thinking failing with Isom-D zero. We don't like it and many times it's just stupid. But AA was not running well, just like US wasn't when he got here. He instituted this at US and despite the same cries, it worked. Soon you didn't hear much about it. Here we turned it into a captain's authority issue and it really isn't. It's an ops planning one and other people are better informed to make those decisions. We lost that fight. I think we would have been better served to say "We support your efforts to make this a better airline. Let us help you. We understand what you're saying, but we believe that certain managers are closing the door and leaving revenue/non-revenue pax behind so they don't have to answer for their shoddy operation. How can we help you see the difference?" I think Isom would have been much more receptive than they way we handled it and by handling it the way we did we lost any input.

I doubt my way would work because it's not telling pilots what they want to hear. No one likes to accept the part in a mess and at this place there are plenty of others to blame. Over and over again I've seen plenty of pilots be more than willing to "stick it to the company!"...unless it costs them money.

Originally Posted by R57 relay

Jesus H Christ you are maddening!



Almost all the TA trips we have leave afternoon/evening and arrive in Europe the next morning(base time and local). So you are on duty every calendar day. 3 calendar days @5:15 would be 15:45, or block flown.



I said that maybe I'm wrong, so let's have someone that actually has this chime in, deal?

Originally Posted by mainlineAF

YOU WOULD GET PAID 5:15 OR WHATEVER YOU BLOCKED OVER 5:15 FOR EACH CALENDAR DAY.

You can't grasp the concept.

Or maybe it's like when my FO lined up on the runway edge lights a few weeks ago. It was so obvious I thought I was the one who was confused lol.

Originally Posted by R57 relay

You really, really need to understand something-you are not nearly as smart as you think you are and the rest of are not as stupid.

Originally Posted by mainlineAF

YOU WOULD GET PAID 5:15 OR WHATEVER YOU BLOCKED OVER 5:15 FOR EACH CALENDAR DAY.

But intl trips would be a question mark depending on the contract.

You can't grasp the concept.

Or maybe it's like when my FO lined up on the runway edge lights a few weeks ago. It was so obvious I thought I was the one who was confused lol.

Originally Posted by mainlineAF

I'm not trying to be difficult. It's just two different things here and we both are determined we aren't wrong.

Originally Posted by R57 relay

My God I can't imagine how good you'd be at it if you really tried!

Originally Posted by mainlineAF

That's it I'm bidding clt airbus.