Atlas Air Hiring
08-24-2013, 07:43 AM
#6591
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: Knuckle-dragging line pilot
Posts: 943
Originally Posted by hvydvr
If you're in the seat at Atlas, you already pretty much have the mins for the majors as well (TPIC, etc).
Originally Posted by hvydvr
Once you have the mins, you're essentially trying to prove you're not a head case/d-bag in an interview anyway.
08-24-2013, 08:05 AM
#6592
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2013
Posts: 393
Originally Posted by hvydvr
At the end of the day, SIC, IRO, etc is essentially worthless time anyway once you get here. If you're in the seat at Atlas, you already pretty much have the mins for the majors as well (TPIC, etc). Once you have the mins, you're essentially trying to prove you're not a head case/d-bag in an interview anyway.
Ergo, I haven't seen most guys putting gnats ass logbooks together---logging instrument time, night etc. You'll have a PIC rating in either the 74 or 76 when you leave training. If you're going to interview somewhere else after Atlas, print off your company log and take it with you. You better not claim IRO as PIC anyway in an interview and as far as SIC goes, if you're operating, you're required to be there by the company and I haven't yet heard of third in command time yet.
I'm just curious about this, as I've never been exposed to it. The only augmented crew flying I've done is 3 pilots for anything beyond 10 hours in a single leg - and that was part 91 so I have no idea, nor do I care, what the other two guys logged, as we were all captains.
How does it work out for a 4 pilot crew? Is there one PIC and three SIC? Two and two? Is there an in flight re-release used that changes the PIC and SIC in the cockpit to "passengers", and the relieving crew(which were passengers until this point) become PIC and SIC?
I'm talking purely from a legal/paperwork standing here.
As I've always told people and live by...log what you want, but be prepared to defend it. It's really not my business unless I'm the interviewer.
Cheers
08-24-2013, 08:30 AM
#6593
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: B744 FO
Posts: 375
4 pilot crew is normally one PIC and 3 FO's... A 3-leg flight is pretty wearing for the Capt. as they are required to be in the left seat for all t/o & landings...
I've been in a four person crew as an FO with 3 Capts .... I guess i bear watching
As far as logging....in FAA logbook,
As an FO:
9.6 hour flight, 3 pilots...... 2/3 of the time logged - 6.4 hours.
13.2 hour flight, 4 pilots......1/2 of time logged - 6.6 hours
3.3 hour flight, 2 pilots ........all time logged - 3.3 hours
log all landings, but parenthesize those I didn't make
Short flight that has three crewmembers, if I don't sit up front, I generally don't put in FAA logbook..
of course, in the little red/blue book, ALL time, including return to gate, logged to assure 32 or 30 in 7, 100 or 120 per month, 350 in 90 days, 1000 per year, etc that the company supposedly keeps track of also.
I've been in a four person crew as an FO with 3 Capts .... I guess i bear watching
As far as logging....in FAA logbook,
As an FO:
9.6 hour flight, 3 pilots...... 2/3 of the time logged - 6.4 hours.
13.2 hour flight, 4 pilots......1/2 of time logged - 6.6 hours
3.3 hour flight, 2 pilots ........all time logged - 3.3 hours
log all landings, but parenthesize those I didn't make
Short flight that has three crewmembers, if I don't sit up front, I generally don't put in FAA logbook..
of course, in the little red/blue book, ALL time, including return to gate, logged to assure 32 or 30 in 7, 100 or 120 per month, 350 in 90 days, 1000 per year, etc that the company supposedly keeps track of also.
08-24-2013, 08:53 AM
#6594
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: Wind checker
Posts: 763
Originally Posted by captainv
Well, there are exceptions! We've hired a few stuck-in-the-right-seat RJ FOs.
Jeez! 0 for 2!
Jeez! 0 for 2!
So many people get wrapped around the axle about logging down to the minute. Bottom line is that once you have the minimums for whatever company you're interested in, getting that interview is a lot more about networking and succeeding in their hiring process than plunking down the logbook. This is reflected in the wide variety of backgrounds at Atlas, including the right seat only RJ FOs.
08-24-2013, 09:25 AM
#6595
Tuk er jerbs!
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: B747 Left
Posts: 1,342
Originally Posted by hvydvr
The same logic holds. Unless you're signing for the jet and getting Capt time, it really doesn't matter if you have 3,000 or 10,000 throwing gear in the right seat.
So many people get wrapped around the axle about logging down to the minute. Bottom line is that once you have the minimums for whatever company you're interested in, getting that interview is a lot more about networking and succeeding in their hiring process than plunking down the logbook. This is reflected in the wide variety of backgrounds at Atlas, including the right seat only RJ FOs.
So many people get wrapped around the axle about logging down to the minute. Bottom line is that once you have the minimums for whatever company you're interested in, getting that interview is a lot more about networking and succeeding in their hiring process than plunking down the logbook. This is reflected in the wide variety of backgrounds at Atlas, including the right seat only RJ FOs.
Count me in as an Atlas pilot without TPIC, by the way. I hit the waves at completely the wrong time, and simply never got a chance to upgrade at the companies I flew jet equipment. Not a lack of skill or drive...just bad timing. I was within a year of holding it at Omni, but that all fell apart, as well. My PIC is all Northeast SPIFR 135, which HR departments throughout the industry have snubbed. Thankfully Atlas saw past that.
08-24-2013, 09:47 AM
#6596
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Posts: 611
08-24-2013, 10:42 AM
#6598
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 610
Originally Posted by 727gm
4 pilot crew is normally one PIC and 3 FO's... A 3-leg flight is pretty wearing for the Capt. as they are required to be in the left seat for all t/o & landings...
I've been in a four person crew as an FO with 3 Capts .... I guess i bear watching
As far as logging....in FAA logbook,
As an FO:
9.6 hour flight, 3 pilots...... 2/3 of the time logged - 6.4 hours.
13.2 hour flight, 4 pilots......1/2 of time logged - 6.6 hours
3.3 hour flight, 2 pilots ........all time logged - 3.3 hours
log all landings, but parenthesize those I didn't make
Short flight that has three crewmembers, if I don't sit up front, I generally don't put in FAA logbook..
of course, in the little red/blue book, ALL time, including return to gate, logged to assure 32 or 30 in 7, 100 or 120 per month, 350 in 90 days, 1000 per year, etc that the company supposedly keeps track of also.
I've been in a four person crew as an FO with 3 Capts .... I guess i bear watching
As far as logging....in FAA logbook,
As an FO:
9.6 hour flight, 3 pilots...... 2/3 of the time logged - 6.4 hours.
13.2 hour flight, 4 pilots......1/2 of time logged - 6.6 hours
3.3 hour flight, 2 pilots ........all time logged - 3.3 hours
log all landings, but parenthesize those I didn't make
Short flight that has three crewmembers, if I don't sit up front, I generally don't put in FAA logbook..
of course, in the little red/blue book, ALL time, including return to gate, logged to assure 32 or 30 in 7, 100 or 120 per month, 350 in 90 days, 1000 per year, etc that the company supposedly keeps track of also.
08-24-2013, 12:07 PM
#6599
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2007
Position: Sr. VP of button pushing
Posts: 2,730
The regs don't say much about logging SIC time. However, that's the way the company and regs count the time towards your daily, 48 hour, 7, 30, and 90 day and 12 month limits.
In theory no one's supposed to be in the seat more than 8 hours. But I just did DWC - AUH - PVG. The DWC - AUH leg was 44 minutes block (a new personal record beating my 55 minutes MFM - HKG.) The company will figure we all flew 30 minutes that leg. Usually if I'm the third wheel for a short hop I'll try to give the other pilots an extra 15 minutes or 30 minutes rest the next leg.
In theory no one's supposed to be in the seat more than 8 hours. But I just did DWC - AUH - PVG. The DWC - AUH leg was 44 minutes block (a new personal record beating my 55 minutes MFM - HKG.) The company will figure we all flew 30 minutes that leg. Usually if I'm the third wheel for a short hop I'll try to give the other pilots an extra 15 minutes or 30 minutes rest the next leg.
08-24-2013, 12:09 PM
#6600
On Reserve
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Position: P-3C IP
Posts: 22
Atlas Air Hiring
I am an outsider looking in, but this is exactly how we log it flying P-3s in the Navy. If you sign for it, you get all the PIC time, if you don't then you get only time in the seat, ie 2/3 of total flight time, since we routinely fly with 3 pilots.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
