Sirecks

It seems that this job, like others, is all relative. Those I know that fly for Atlas in my Reserve unit always say that the worst day at Atlas does not compare to a bad in AMC flying heavies. Meaning that even a "bad" trip with Atlas is still a great one, when you compare it to AMC. Also, I'm in that same boat where my family has only known post 9/11 heavy airlift flying in the military. So if what my friends are saying is true, this is a step up for us.

Also, my family would rather big chunks of time being gone, and big chunks of time being home (relatively speaking). Meaning, compare to the 4 on, 3 off, 3 on, 2 off, 4 on, etc. schedule with the Delta's of the world as a new hire. My wife would die if I had to keep a schedule like that. She would much rather I be gone for a straight stretch, then chop it up like that. It's just how we work best.

I guess I'm just trying to add to the idea that it all is up to you, what you and your family wants, and what you are looking for in your lifestyle. Every place you go work, from Home Depot, to McDonalds, to an office building, to the cockpit, you'll find those that LOVE it, and those that HATE it. It's up to you to make up your own mind, and choose what's right for you.

744driver

Okay, let us reframe this debate a little...

Talon, and Sirecks,

IMHO, this is not about the best job you and I have ever had, or even how much better life at Atlas is than the military.

This thread is about the prospective newbie that wants to make a reasonable and smart choice about Atlas vs all the rest...this is a comparison against our peers at the Legacy, the LCCs, and the two or three major cargo airlines (FDX, UPS, and ABX). I am not going to concede even one dollar, one period, one comma, etc that they have in their CBA by saying that my life is better than my former carrier and the military. I think that argument misses the point...

This is a comparison among airlines that fly similar equipment, similar routes, etc...by not comparing ourselves with the others in our group, we are giving the company a pass. We are also saying we don't deserve what they have.

I do agree that our future is bright, our fleet is a good mix, our business plan seems like a winner, but I am not going to tell a 35-year old pilot that he should come here and stay here for the rest of his career...Those days are gone. The recent CBAs at Delta, United, (and the ones to come soon at American, FedEx, and UPS), have made a long-term stay at Atlas for a young pilot a bad choice.

Guys, this needs to be a comparison among peers, not what we have seen in our past lives. We do a great disservice to the young pilot by saying that our QoL, our pay, our retirement, etc are the standard...it most certainly is NOT.

C5nwhaleguy

Sireks and others
thats part of the problem under AMC/military there was no contract just 3 man crews with 24 hour days..most prior mil guys coming here don't know what a contract is much less willing to nut up to the scheduler dujour and tell them to pound sand with a reference in our company friendly CBA (crewmember bentover aggreement). As a guard heavy guy before here i saw a regional contract negotiated by 20 and 30 yr olds that had legacy equivalent work rules and a CBA with teeth while the rank and file upheld it. So AMC to atlas is a no brainer better. FOrtunately, i saw a good contract as an RJ CA my QOL was 10x better than here. I'd say at the legacies its probably the same if not better also. If we are happy with what we have now it pales in comparison to what the others have. Stop settling for the scraps the company gives us!!! its time to demand more as more is being demanded of us along while making less money under this pittiful CBA...744 i knew i liked ya way back in MIA!

Kikuchiyo

I've been lurking on this thread for a while and finally have something constructive to add to it.

I got the invite to take the online assessment at the end of May and took it about a week later (due to being out on a trip). Sent in my NHPS form, but didn't get an auto-response like we do when we update our resume & PAQ. So I called HR today to make sure that my NHPS form was received. (It was, there's no auto-response set up on that inbox.)

Here's the latest from HR: Interviews currently scheduled for the end of June (as previously noted in the thread), but that may get slipped. There's about 15 folks in line for a phone screening right now, but there won't be any phone screenings done for the next week and a half due to other things going on within HR. June & July classes scheduled, but she doesn't know beyond that.

She said I'm in the queue for a phone screening, and we even talked about one of my "issues" (a recent training bust.) She did let me know that in a case like mine with a training bust, they'd cover that in the phone screen, and then take it to one of the management pilots (I didn't catch who she said it goes to - training, CP, standards?). It's not a kiss of death to have one, as long as your attitude about it is right (accept responsibility, know what you learned from it), and the rest of your resume / record is what they're looking for.

Hope this helps others like me that are just waiting on a call.

worldfr8dog

AGREED!

We are NOT flying for the military (paycheck wise), we are a 121 airline and that is what we need to be comparing ourselves to, our 121 peers! The military didn't tell you they were going to pay you $$$$ for the month and then pay you $$ because they found a work rule loophole they could exploit month after month after month while offering your $$ that they took from you for $$$/$$$$ to other people. (If they did a cost-bennefit analysis on the current scheduling practices here they would find the true money drainer was not the field labor)

We have some serious CRM issues too while we are at it. The Captain is "ultimately responsible for the aircraft" not how I wear my tie. I'm sorry but you may have been a commander in your previous job commanding when and how people wore their ties, ... not here. The overhead panel is OUR panel, not "yours that shall be touched only with express permission." This 1950's attitude needs to stop! I'm not saying it's only the military pilots that have this rank=control attitude but it exists. We are a team, we don't yell when we want something, we tactfully ask.

But back to comparisons talk. Like 744 is saying, apples to apples, not apples to tanks.

(dang 744, now you've got me ranting! lol)

OSAVIP

Well said...absolutely agree. Anyone who doesn't see "greener pastures" at other companies (many of them hiring) is delusional. Choice seems simple. We need some weed-n-feed here or find another pasture.

Beagle_Lover

Talon's standard is the USAF and ATA, they both do not exist in the 121 and 117 world as we know it. He does not say if he has a hefty retirement or not from the military. It does make a big difference at Atlas. As the previous poster stated, at Atlas, this place is a big shell game. Sometimes one of those 80+ hour awarded lines goes away, while you are on one of those 20 hour days, for no reason. It is a tough pill to swallow and that motivates people to flee to Spirit, DAL, AA, UAL and SWA. The nice military retirement compensates for the lost pay that normally happens at Atlas.

I would advise those who look at Atlas in the top three job prospects to keep looking. In terms of CBA it does not even come close to the top 5. Atlas is still on its first negotiated CBA. The current CBA is a post merger non section 6 contract.

Also remember Atlas is partially built on CMI which means the risk to the company is none and substantial to the pilot group. Guess who is furloughed if any of the CMI customers decides to pull their airplane(s) in favor of another company?

Conditions right now are consistent light to moderate chop but it is forecasted to get worse before smooth sailing again. Good luck with your decision.

OrionFE

I wish more guys would do their homework prior to taking a job, specifically with the 121 sup airlines! It is comical and annoying flying with a new guy that cant stand being gone 17 days or being pulled off his line!

CBA's....good luck finding the perfect one! Almost any airline, guys complain about the current CBA! There is always room for improvement, but it is part of the business. It will always be greener somewhere else! Read the UPS forums! Even the FedEx forums. Those guys are miserable as well.

If you want and/or expect a schedule that never changes, don't come to a 121 ACMI airline! If you don't mind commuting (JS to work), crash pads, 3-4 day trips.....stay domestic.

JerrySpringer

It's attitudes like these, that undervalue and do not understand that this is a job and we provide a valuable service to the company, that have existed far too long at this company and allowed the conditions of employment to deteriorate to where we stand today.

Lower income for more days on the road with little rules (if you don't get it, as it stands our rules allow the company to set as an efficient schedule as they'd like), no retirement.

FunBux™ don't pay the mortgage or even put gas in your beat up old car.

Talon1011

Not true, Jerry. You read too much into what I'm saying. My point was purely to show that our business model is a great deal different than the passenger outfits. I wanted to point out that while I very much enjoy the type of flying and lifestyle here, it may not be everyone's cup of tea and it's important to sort that out before showing up. That's a different subject than contract negotiations, upgrading work rules, and ways to improve things. Those are all vital but have no immediate bearing on whether someone will fit the type of flying we do. No matter what the next contract brings, one will never be able to live in their SLC base and fly three day trips while flying at Atlas.