Dead heading does not count against your 16 hours
12-30-2008, 11:19 AM
#1
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Dead heading does not count against your 16 hours
Just got word from scheduling that I can knowingly exceed my 16 hour duty day as long as my LAST SCHEDULED LEG is a must-ride dead head. (You know, the dead heads built into your schedule that I get paid for and being flown under 121.) I can't sit at the airport on reserve for more than 16 hours, but I can sit on a plane!! Something does not sound right here...
12-30-2008, 02:31 PM
#2
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Don't quote me on this because I don't have my FOM or contract on me, but I believe there is some provision that allows the 16 hour duty limitation to be exceeded by like an hour or something if it's a DH back to domicile.
12-30-2008, 02:46 PM
#3
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I would not do this. If you are getting paid to DH, you are on duty. You are not allowed to be on duty more than 16 hrs because you will not have had adequate rest in the preceding 24 hrs.
I don't know if all companies call it this, but you could "limo", but then you're on your own time, off the clock, not getting paid, and you'd have to find your own way home.
I don't know if all companies call it this, but you could "limo", but then you're on your own time, off the clock, not getting paid, and you'd have to find your own way home.
12-30-2008, 03:27 PM
#4
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Why do you guys have such a hard time understanding this concept? The 16 hours pertains to flight duty as a required crewmember. If you are DH in the back you are not a required crewmember, but rather just some poor schmoe with a crappy work contract. The FAA and FARs don't care about you unless you are acting as a required crewmember. If the DH was the first leg of your day it would start your 16 hour clock for flight duties.
Your contract should protect you from having to work 16+ hours, but the FAA/FARs don't in this case.
Your contract should protect you from having to work 16+ hours, but the FAA/FARs don't in this case.
12-30-2008, 03:47 PM
#5
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This happened to us all the time when I was at Mesa, of course our contract back then did not protect us. You're right, DH is not req'd crewmemember time, your rest doesn't start until the DH completes, but you can legaly DH, just can't fly. That is the legal definition, not your contractual one.
12-30-2008, 05:21 PM
#6
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Originally Posted by UpThere
Don't quote me on this because I don't have my FOM or contract on me, but I believe there is some provision that allows the 16 hour duty limitation to be exceeded by like an hour or something if it's a DH back to domicile.
12-30-2008, 05:24 PM
#7
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Originally Posted by L'il J.Seinfeld
Why do you guys have such a hard time understanding this concept? The 16 hours pertains to flight duty as a required crewmember. If you are DH in the back you are not a required crewmember, but rather just some poor schmoe with a crappy work contract. The FAA and FARs don't care about you unless you are acting as a required crewmember. If the DH was the first leg of your day it would start your 16 hour clock for flight duties.
Your contract should protect you from having to work 16+ hours, but the FAA/FARs don't in this case.
Your contract should protect you from having to work 16+ hours, but the FAA/FARs don't in this case.
Originally Posted by BLott4
This happened to us all the time when I was at Mesa, of course our contract back then did not protect us. You're right, DH is not req'd crewmemember time, your rest doesn't start until the DH completes, but you can legaly DH, just can't fly. That is the legal definition, not your contractual one.
It hit me like a ton of bricks! I finally get it. Thanks!!
12-30-2008, 07:31 PM
#9
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Originally Posted by 250 or point 65
does anyone have a link to a copy of the whitlow letter? I'd like to see where it states in there that duty is only duty when you're a required crewmember.
12-31-2008, 03:45 AM
#10
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Originally Posted by 250 or point 65
does anyone have a link to a copy of the whitlow letter? I'd like to see where it states in there that duty is only duty when you're a required crewmember.
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/.../treichler.rtf
There's another one that deals with deadheading (and a few other situations) in more detail, with some examples: http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...03/johnson.rtf
You should be able to find your answers (or at least more fodder for argument ;) ) between the two.
Last edited by NoyGonnaDoIt; 12-31-2008 at 03:52 AM.
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