Citation SIC
03-25-2012 | 08:27 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
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From: Baja Vermont
Cubdriver
Might you be able to give an example of an "approved operations manual" for a FAR 91 business jet operator? I was unaware FAR 91 operators are required to submit a ops manual for FAA approval.
GF
Might you be able to give an example of an "approved operations manual" for a FAR 91 business jet operator? I was unaware FAR 91 operators are required to submit a ops manual for FAA approval.
GF
03-25-2012 | 10:16 PM
#22
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I guess you've never flown cargo planes with hazmat and noxious smells? It was just a thought to make an argument for a copilot to be utilized in a single pilot bizjet but since a Captain/CFI can log dual anyway it is a moot point!
03-26-2012 | 02:24 AM
#23
Prime Minister/Moderator
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
I know plenty of guys who have worked as professional pilots under 61.55, typically on small private-owner jets. It's not abstract, it's done all the time. Of course your insurance company gets a vote too.
03-26-2012 | 04:09 AM
#24
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From: ATP, CFI etc.
And that's why there is an ops manual usually. A company can have an ops manual, it does not need to be FAA approved under 91 rules, and my point is they will tend to have one to keep insurance rates low. Airplanes without one cost more to insure, period. That being the case, claiming you flew right seat on one calls for some extra proof- if you flew with someone who is self insured or obtained a great deal on insurance somehow which allows anybody to fly right seat, you need to make that clear when you show a prospective employer the SIC time. Something like "I worked for so-and-so in his Bravo under 61.55 rules, great opportunity, and since it was kind of unusual to log so many hours that way I also had him write me a letter of recommendation to support it".
Last edited by Cubdriver; 03-26-2012 at 04:36 AM.
03-26-2012 | 06:31 AM
#25
Line Holder
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From: DH8D FO
Also, I agree... Ops manuals for FAR 91 operators are becoming more common, but they are not mandatory (yet). I am guessing that this is due to flight departments getting ready for the implementation of SMS.
04-12-2012 | 05:21 AM
#26
Citation X driver
Joined: Aug 2011
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From: citation x driver
The Citation 550 is a two pilot aircraft. The Captain has the ability to get a waiver and training to be certified to fly the aircraft single pilot but it is his option weather to use that or not. I am currently flying a Citation 550, with an SIC type rating that I received while working on the aircraft. A lot of our customers want two pilots on board and I have been back and forth over this regulation. My local FSDO had nothing bad to say about issuing the SIC type or questioned how I received the training.
04-13-2012 | 07:04 PM
#27
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From: Guppy Capt.
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1157659Is it possible to log SIC time in a Citation Bravo if the Captain is single pilot typed but the insurance company requires a two man crew under part 91 operations. If not able to log SIC time and the Captain is CFI, CFI-I, and a MEI. Could the person in the right seat receive dual?
1. "safety pilot" is REQUIRED if said Captain wants to "practice" IFR
or
2. "dual received" from said pilot....
Or REALLY make it easy (and less "gray"), have him enter the training required in your logbook, sign you off, and get the SIC privileges ay your local FSDO... (FAR 61.55)
(Check with the insurance company too)
04-17-2012 | 04:26 AM
#28
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Yes and yes.
1. "safety pilot" is REQUIRED if said Captain wants to "practice" IFR
or
2. "dual received" from said pilot....
Or REALLY make it easy (and less "gray"), have him enter the training required in your logbook, sign you off, and get the SIC privileges ay your local FSDO... (FAR 61.55)
(Check with the insurance company too)
1. "safety pilot" is REQUIRED if said Captain wants to "practice" IFR
or
2. "dual received" from said pilot....
Or REALLY make it easy (and less "gray"), have him enter the training required in your logbook, sign you off, and get the SIC privileges ay your local FSDO... (FAR 61.55)
(Check with the insurance company too)
#1 is legal but will be questionable in the eyes of employers if you log a lot of it. They know that people don't usually do a lot hood time in jets.
Just get the 61.55 training (it's easy) and log away with no worries.
05-15-2012 | 08:49 PM
#29
New Hire
Joined: Jun 2008
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From: Corporate Pilot
What's the big deal with the SIC rating? It's only good for international flight. Have the captain who needs to be a MEI sign your book as duel given. I do this all the time for the jet owner I fly for. He has like 300 hours of Duel in the jet right now. Our local FSDO said this was the only legal way for a non type rated pilot to log it. Some day he will take the type ride. I'll keep signing his book as duel until he is ready. He says he doesn't want the type rating but something tells me different. EGO thing.
05-16-2012 | 02:31 AM
#30
Prime Minister/Moderator
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
What's the big deal with the SIC rating? It's only good for international flight. Have the captain who needs to be a MEI sign your book as duel given. I do this all the time for the jet owner I fly for. He has like 300 hours of Duel in the jet right now. Our local FSDO said this was the only legal way for a non type rated pilot to log it. Some day he will take the type ride. I'll keep signing his book as duel until he is ready. He says he doesn't want the type rating but something tells me different. EGO thing.
You cannot give indiscriminate dual forever as a means of logging time. There has to be a legit training purpose.
You might (maybe) be able to justify 300 hours towards a type, but probably only if you meticulously document the students progress against some kind of learning plan. The only excuse for that much dual would be if the student sucked (or maybe if insurance required it?)
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