rickair7777

This has been discussed numerous times on APC. Yes, it's legal but civilian aviation employers generally do not count "sole manipulator" turbine pic towards their requirements...and they'll generally show you the door if you try to represent that time as TPIC. Tyey want TPIC where you signed for the aircraft.

If you want to log it for fun (or possibly a government job), I would recommend a separate column so that you don't confuse any potential employers.

Da40Pilot

Right. The Old guy can log PIC, but the pilot acting as PIC is ultimately the one that is responsible for any liability incurred (In this case the CFI). The difference between the two is therefore simply liability.

In order for a pilot to ACT as PIC, he needs the medical, the license and the flight review - therefore, this old guy would not be able to go fly on his own, let alone log PIC unless an appropriately rated pilot was sitting next to him and assuming full responsibility as acting PIC.

Anytime you're the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft that you are appropriately RATED for, no matter how long it's been since you've flown, you are able to log that as PIC.

There are a few exceptions......If the old guy decides to go up with that CFI in a single engine land aircraft that is complex or high performance (i.e a C182RG) and the old guy does not have the necessary high performance and complex endorsements, then the old guy CANNOT log PIC at all in that aircraft, even though he's appropriately rated in the category and class - Another one is when you're flying in an airplane that can be pressurized....the moment that oxygen comes on, if you don't have a high altitude endorsement, you are not able to log that time that you're up in the flight levels as PIC.

Greg Bockelman

Oh ho ho. You were right on up until this point. Endorsements are not ratings. As long as the old guy is flying an airplane that is covered by what is written on his certificate, he can log the time. Act as PIC, not so much. As long as someone is onboard the plane legal to act as PIC, he can log the time.

That is also covered in the legal interpretations.

rickair7777

Actually, IIRC as long as you're rated in Cat & Class you can log sole-man PIC even if you're missing an endorsement or two. This is due to the way the regs were worded (unless the FAA has recently issued a contrary legal finding). You can log it, but not act as actual PIC.

No, I think you can log sole-man PIC at any time (see above).

What you cannot do without a high-alt endorsement is serve as actual PIC at ANY time in a pressurized airplane. Go read the regs, the language applies to airplanes that are CERTIFIED for flight above 25K...has nothing to do with what altitude you actually operate at. This makes sense, if you mismanage the pressurization system you can create problems even on the ground.

Da40Pilot

Right, you can't act as PIC in a high performance aircraft if you don't have the endorsement, same goes for the high altitude endorsement - if you're going to fly passengers, on any of the two cases, unless you have a CFI onboard with his own endorsements to act as PIC, you cannot even go fly the C182RG solo even though you are rated in that category and class. I stand completely corrected on the dual not being able to be logged as PIC. I confused myself there on the logging as pic vs acting as PIC.

JohnBurke

For the purposes of logging pilot in command time, "rated" means category and class (and where appropriate, type). It does not include a requirement for an endorsement.

A CFI is not required in order to log the time, or in other words, one need not be acting as pilot in command or have an instructor on board who is providing instruction. One need only be sole manipulator of the controls; if one is rated in category and class (airplane, single engine land, for example), one may log the time if one is sole manipulator of the controls.

rickair7777

I would caveat that by saying that "type" is irrelevant in this discussion, which is why I omitted it. I'm pretty sure it's not possible to have a type rating without all associated endorsements needed to operate the plane?

Arciasr

This has been covered many, many times. Please search. If you're referring to logging time in a light GA aircraft, the answer is "no," unless you use the safety pilot loophole. An aircraft must be type certificated for two pilots, or be operated under regulations read: Part 135 under IFR requiring a second pilot for either to log SIC.

JohnBurke

The aircraft must require a second in command or be operating under regulations that require a second in command.

14 CFR 91.109(c)(1) is one such regulation, and is not a "loophole."