Two Pilot Long Haul Ops? Airbus & Cathay
06-19-2021, 06:24 AM
#61
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
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Originally Posted by fcoolaiddrinker
Theres federal limits on most of that. Unless gross negligence is proven.
Case in point the last big crash... the airline knowingly (and through careful turning of the blind eye) employed a guy with a horrible record. Honest mistake? I think you could sell a jury otherwise. Same with Atlas at IAH... good thing boxes don't sue.
A narrowbody crash today is probably going to cost up to $2B (yes billion), unless the plane got hit by a meteor. In some cases it might be the mfg, not the airline who pays but same principles apply.
06-19-2021, 07:59 AM
#62
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Position: 777 Captain in Training
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Haha just finishing a around the world 777 trip and multiple legs no CPDLC, used HF for primary comms, not in radar contact for portions , lost satcom multiple times. Explain how this is going to work in this environment. Also, as one said it throws HF and the PM role out the window. Many of you saying just press a button and get the guy out of the bunk have never watched crews handle emergencies as instructor. The 5 minutes it would take to try and get someone who just was woken up, up to speed on the problem would probably doom the aircraft.
06-19-2021, 09:16 AM
#63
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Joined APC: Aug 2016
Position: Relaxed
Posts: 6,945
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Airlines essentially always settle far above the federal caps... because they know when it comes to aviation it's very easy for plaintiff's attornies to sell gross negligence, or anything else they need to spin, to get the jury where they want it to be.
Case in point the last big crash... the airline knowingly (and through careful turning of the blind eye) employed a guy with a horrible record. Honest mistake? I think you could sell a jury otherwise. Same with Atlas at IAH... good thing boxes don't sue.
A narrowbody crash today is probably going to cost up to $2B (yes billion), unless the plane got hit by a meteor. In some cases it might be the mfg, not the airline who pays but same principles apply.
Case in point the last big crash... the airline knowingly (and through careful turning of the blind eye) employed a guy with a horrible record. Honest mistake? I think you could sell a jury otherwise. Same with Atlas at IAH... good thing boxes don't sue.
A narrowbody crash today is probably going to cost up to $2B (yes billion), unless the plane got hit by a meteor. In some cases it might be the mfg, not the airline who pays but same principles apply.
Remember, it crashed. Someone or some company must be negligent. It must be gross, the plane, with all the failsafe measures, killed multiple people. That is pretty gross in the person on the street’s mind.
Reminds me of the old line a grand jury would indict a ham sandwich.
06-19-2021, 09:45 AM
#64
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
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Originally Posted by HIFLYR
Haha just finishing a around the world 777 trip and multiple legs no CPDLC, used HF for primary comms, not in radar contact for portions , lost satcom multiple times. Explain how this is going to work in this environment. Also, as one said it throws HF and the PM role out the window. Many of you saying just press a button and get the guy out of the bunk have never watched crews handle emergencies as instructor. The 5 minutes it would take to try and get someone who just was woken up, up to speed on the problem would probably doom the aircraft.
Even if there's no bad outcomes, there would simply be too many reports of on-duty fatigue from people who's rest got interrupted too many times. Overseas regulators might be OK with that but not in the US.
Or you get UAS from overloaded pilots who want to avoid waking up their buddy (if for no other reason than payback's a biatch).
06-19-2021, 09:54 AM
#65
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
Even if there's no bad outcomes, there would simply be too many reports of on-duty fatigue from people who's rest got interrupted too many times. Overseas regulators might be OK with that but not in the US.
Or you get UAS from overloaded pilots who want to avoid waking up their buddy (if for no other reason than payback's a biatch).
Or you get UAS from overloaded pilots who want to avoid waking up their buddy (if for no other reason than payback's a biatch).
Can’t imagine that in the US, especially these days.
06-19-2021, 11:07 AM
#67
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Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 283
Originally Posted by HIFLYR
Haha just finishing a around the world 777 trip and multiple legs no CPDLC, used HF for primary comms, not in radar contact for portions , lost satcom multiple times. Explain how this is going to work in this environment. Also, as one said it throws HF and the PM role out the window. Many of you saying just press a button and get the guy out of the bunk have never watched crews handle emergencies as instructor. The 5 minutes it would take to try and get someone who just was woken up, up to speed on the problem would probably doom the aircraft.
06-19-2021, 11:52 AM
#68
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Joined APC: Feb 2020
Posts: 57
Originally Posted by Turbosina
Garmin recently certified a full auto-descent and auto-land system on the Piper M600 single-engine turbine. I flew one not long ago. Press just one button and the aircraft will descend from the flight levels, avoid traffic, avoid weather to the extent possible, broadcast automated messages to ATC, and land itself at the nearest suitable airport, taking into account things like weather, runway length, and so on It's astonishingly good.
Systems like these won't replace pilots, but they certainly make it a lot easier for the sort of ops Cathay is considering to be approved/ certified.
Kinda spooky actually, watching the SLS (Piper's name for the system) do its thing.
Systems like these won't replace pilots, but they certainly make it a lot easier for the sort of ops Cathay is considering to be approved/ certified.
Kinda spooky actually, watching the SLS (Piper's name for the system) do its thing.
06-19-2021, 05:40 PM
#69
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Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,099
Originally Posted by TrojanCMH
I agree that pilotless airplanes are a long ways off for a multitude of reasons. However some of the leading people in driverless technology have said cars are much more complex as there are a lot more variables. In a plane you’re not dodging pedestrians, figuring out whether it’s your turn to go at a stop sign, merging into and out of bumper to bumper traffic, etc…
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What about freight trains? What’s holding back humanless freight trains from roaming the continental U.S.?
06-19-2021, 05:48 PM
#70
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Originally Posted by UpUpUpNaWaYs
Has the FAA approved this while the pilot sits in the backseat and out of reach of the controls? It’s all parlor games until they put their money where their mouth is. Automation is not the same as Autonomy. Autonomy is likely to be asymptotic. They keep saying they are close, but all eggs are in the machine learning basket meaning their wag as to when AI is achieved is as good as a toddler’s.
It’s designed for an incapacitated pilot. So presumably, he/she may still be in the seat, but unconscious. Does that count?
https://discover.garmin.com/en-US/autonomi/
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