Two Pilot Long Haul Ops? Airbus & Cathay
06-19-2021, 06:06 PM
#71
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Originally Posted by FXLAX
What about freight trains? What’s holding back humanless freight trains from roaming the continental U.S.?
While I agree we are probably quite a bit away from single pilot or pilotless, unfortunately I think we may see 2 pilot LH ops sooner than we think unless APLA can lobby on why this is a bad idea (fatigue) AND keep other airlines from doing this in our airspace.
06-20-2021, 06:26 AM
#73
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Originally Posted by FXLAX
It’s designed for an incapacitated pilot.
06-20-2021, 08:23 AM
#74
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Two Pilot Long Haul Ops? Airbus & Cathay
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Yes, and that in no way constitutes the kind of autonomy actually needed to replace human pilots. It's a panic button, intended for the pax of an incapacitated single pilot... the certification threshold was: Better that the Alternative.
That wasn’t my point. I was answering the question I responded to. It is FAA approved certified and where the incapacitated pilot sits doesn’t matter because they will not be in control of the controls regardless of whether he is within reach of them.
But to your point, you can’t deny that this is a step in the direction of complete autonomy.
06-20-2021, 10:25 AM
#75
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Originally Posted by FXLAX
That wasn’t my point. I was answering the question I responded to. It is FAA approved certified and where the incapacitated pilot sits doesn’t matter because they will not be in control of the controls regardless of whether he is within reach of them.
But to your point, you can’t deny that this is a step in the direction of complete autonomy.
But to your point, you can’t deny that this is a step in the direction of complete autonomy.
06-20-2021, 12:36 PM
#76
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Originally Posted by FXLAX
That wasn’t my point. I was answering the question I responded to. It is FAA approved certified and where the incapacitated pilot sits doesn’t matter because they will not be in control of the controls regardless of whether he is within reach of them.
But to your point, you can’t deny that this is a step in the direction of complete autonomy.
But to your point, you can’t deny that this is a step in the direction of complete autonomy.
Bottom line there are two big obstacles...
1. Robust AI which is flexible but also somehow deterministic enough to be certifiable. We don't know how to make it, and the autonomous automobile people have essentially admitted short-term defeat.
2. Up-front cost. Yes autonomy will save airlines bank BUT somebody has to pay for the R&D and certification, and revamping the entire system including ramp, taxi, and ATC. It's probably not going to be the government... eliminating 100,000 good union jobs is not really at the top of their priority list, and neither is taking bleeding-edge gambles with public safety in the interest of corporate profits.
06-20-2021, 01:06 PM
#77
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I don’t think certified autonomous passenger aircraft are coming anytime soon… but self-driving cars are a red herring. Self driving cars are a vastly harder computational problem because roads are so non-standard let alone reacting to other drivers, pedestrians, animals and FOD. Airplane autonomy has a much narrower set of conditions to handle in normal ops and a vastly higher hardware budget per unit.
when airplanes fly themselves really isn’t related to when cars drive themselves.
when airplanes fly themselves really isn’t related to when cars drive themselves.
06-20-2021, 01:12 PM
#79
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Originally Posted by Eudaimonia
Current CX 350 guy here, so this affects me directly, although I doubt I'll still be at the airline come 2025.
This has been worked on for quite some time; a number of delivery flights from Toulouse have trialed the concept. All the CX 350s have 'auto emergency descent' enabled. In a nutshell, if the cabin altitude exceeds 14000', a 15 sec countdown begins, after which the aircraft automatically commences a descent at VMO - 5 to grid MORA (+ correction for non standard temp & pressure), turns right & intercepts an approximate 3nm offset, squawks 7700, puts TCAS below, extends speed brakes, the whole lot.
So my issue is not about whether auto emergency descent will save lives if the single pilot is incapacitated, but what about the other aspects of effectively single pilot longhaul. Weather avoidance? Keeping awake during your WOCL having signed on at midnight local, when you already lose 12 nights sleep/month? A famous line from Australian Special Forces - "two is one, one is none". One pilot is no redundancy.
No doubt these sorts of things will happen eventually, but this is just a fluff piece news article to fill a void. Sure as hell won't be happening in 2025. The local regulator still thinks its 1970!
This has been worked on for quite some time; a number of delivery flights from Toulouse have trialed the concept. All the CX 350s have 'auto emergency descent' enabled. In a nutshell, if the cabin altitude exceeds 14000', a 15 sec countdown begins, after which the aircraft automatically commences a descent at VMO - 5 to grid MORA (+ correction for non standard temp & pressure), turns right & intercepts an approximate 3nm offset, squawks 7700, puts TCAS below, extends speed brakes, the whole lot.
So my issue is not about whether auto emergency descent will save lives if the single pilot is incapacitated, but what about the other aspects of effectively single pilot longhaul. Weather avoidance? Keeping awake during your WOCL having signed on at midnight local, when you already lose 12 nights sleep/month? A famous line from Australian Special Forces - "two is one, one is none". One pilot is no redundancy.
No doubt these sorts of things will happen eventually, but this is just a fluff piece news article to fill a void. Sure as hell won't be happening in 2025. The local regulator still thinks its 1970!
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06-20-2021, 03:27 PM
#80
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Posts: 516
Originally Posted by Aero1900
How did things turn out with Air France when they let the only competent pilot leave the flight deck?
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