4 Failed Primary training Checkrides.....
07-02-2018 | 04:37 PM
#31
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
From: CRJ-900 CA
I've said this before on this topic, and I'll say it again.
First, unless the people commenting here are actual recruiters from the airlines (either regional, major, legacy), all you're getting here is someone's opinion. If you want the best answer on if those failures are going to affect your "employability," go to a job fair, introduce yourself, strike up a conversation with the recruiters, and explain what happened and how you grew as both a person and a pilot from those failures, that will be the answer. Some companies will say that's disqualifying (and that's fine...you probably don't want to work there anyway). Others will say as long as you can prove that you grew from those experiences and that failures will NEVER happen again, you have a shot. That includes legacies as well (I've heard stories of guys with way more failures than you get hired at certain legacies during past hiring waves). Don't base decisions on your entire career on the opinions of a bunch of anonymous posters on these forums.
Secondly, it is absolutely imperative that this is your attitude going forward:
1. Those failures were 100% YOUR fault
2. They ARE a big deal
3. What you learned/how you grew both personally and professionally from each failure
4. The measures you are taking to ensure any type of failure will never happen again.
You seem to already have this attitude, but I'm saying this again simply because that's how important this is going forward.
Finally, you may not be able to get on with "high-tier regionals" (an oxymoron if I've ever heard one) like Endeavour or Envoy, but there are plenty of regionals that WILL take you, as long as you have the attitude you need to have about those failures. Get on with the first one that hires you, get through training, get through probation, and GET INVOLVED. Do work for your company's safety department, get involved in the training department, get involved with non-political union positions, get through upgrade training, become a check airman, attend (and possibly give) aviation-related presentations at various venues. Show the airlines that you are dedicated to perfecting your craft. And above all, NO MORE FAILURES..EVER. Do whatever it takes to pass, even if it means putting your life on hold for a month or two in order to study.
If the airlines are your goal, and you want it bad enough, you CAN do it. PM me if you have any other questions or want my opinion on anything else. God's speed, and good luck to you, my friend.
First, unless the people commenting here are actual recruiters from the airlines (either regional, major, legacy), all you're getting here is someone's opinion. If you want the best answer on if those failures are going to affect your "employability," go to a job fair, introduce yourself, strike up a conversation with the recruiters, and explain what happened and how you grew as both a person and a pilot from those failures, that will be the answer. Some companies will say that's disqualifying (and that's fine...you probably don't want to work there anyway). Others will say as long as you can prove that you grew from those experiences and that failures will NEVER happen again, you have a shot. That includes legacies as well (I've heard stories of guys with way more failures than you get hired at certain legacies during past hiring waves). Don't base decisions on your entire career on the opinions of a bunch of anonymous posters on these forums.
Secondly, it is absolutely imperative that this is your attitude going forward:
1. Those failures were 100% YOUR fault
2. They ARE a big deal
3. What you learned/how you grew both personally and professionally from each failure
4. The measures you are taking to ensure any type of failure will never happen again.
You seem to already have this attitude, but I'm saying this again simply because that's how important this is going forward.
Finally, you may not be able to get on with "high-tier regionals" (an oxymoron if I've ever heard one) like Endeavour or Envoy, but there are plenty of regionals that WILL take you, as long as you have the attitude you need to have about those failures. Get on with the first one that hires you, get through training, get through probation, and GET INVOLVED. Do work for your company's safety department, get involved in the training department, get involved with non-political union positions, get through upgrade training, become a check airman, attend (and possibly give) aviation-related presentations at various venues. Show the airlines that you are dedicated to perfecting your craft. And above all, NO MORE FAILURES..EVER. Do whatever it takes to pass, even if it means putting your life on hold for a month or two in order to study.
If the airlines are your goal, and you want it bad enough, you CAN do it. PM me if you have any other questions or want my opinion on anything else. God's speed, and good luck to you, my friend.
12-27-2018 | 10:13 PM
#32
Thread Starter
On Reserve
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Thought I would update this, as I recently have found myself lurking on various posts about 121 life, pay, QOL, career changers (whether leaving aviation or switching into aviation), career/training turbulence, etc. Here is my 0.02, as I feel like there are a lot of people, in aviation or out, that could use some sort of perspective in how they are attempting to circumnavigate this life or career, even if it is from a low-time CFI such as myself.
Update on where I am:
I have cut back on the amount of instructing I have been doing significantly (reduced my work to a very part-time instructor at a local flying club working on the weekends), and got a full-time job with my degree that is unrelated to aviation. Although it's been 6 months into this new job (and it certainly has its' perks: free food, solid salary, equity, open-office environment, etc. etc.) I feel like I left something I fell in love with.
I've never really envisioned myself working in a routine 8-5, office-based job, and although my salary is great, I constantly begin thinking about how I left behind a job that I enjoyed. I loved instructing pilots,I loved the process of procedures, checklists, maneuvers, etc. I loved being in the air and not at a desk, I loved the view, etc.
I constantly find myself thinking about aviation, thinking about what I left behind, and constantly think about how life will be in the 121 world.
Yes, I failed an excessive amount of checkrides, and although I have no one else to blame but myself for the shortcomings, I feel like I have left too quickly.
To sum this update up (not sure if any one even gives a damn), if you find something you are passionate about, and have a point where your back is literally against the wall, keep pushing, and learn from your mistakes before your situation gets worse. There seems to be a lot of anecdotal evidence of many people getting back into aviation who left during the lost decade, and I think that says a lot. I regret leaving when I was pushed allll the way against that wall, and I will admit that. I want to be a part of the 121 life, and do not want to continue to haunt myself with thoughts of what could have been.
I know I will get to a regional, and I will take it as an opportunity to prove that I am indeed a safe, competent pilot, and hopefully that will lead to a job on a bigger jet. No matter where you are in your career, be thankful that you are flying planes, living a passion you found at some point pursuing what can seem like chaos at times, and respect the process. I sure as hell miss it, and am probably crazy enough to leave something stable that I found for work to get back into pursuing a position in an industry that was already risky, unpredictable, and volatile. Now, I am adding my shaky training failures to the equation because I simply cannot envision my life without this pursuit.
Fly safe.
Update on where I am:
I have cut back on the amount of instructing I have been doing significantly (reduced my work to a very part-time instructor at a local flying club working on the weekends), and got a full-time job with my degree that is unrelated to aviation. Although it's been 6 months into this new job (and it certainly has its' perks: free food, solid salary, equity, open-office environment, etc. etc.) I feel like I left something I fell in love with.
I've never really envisioned myself working in a routine 8-5, office-based job, and although my salary is great, I constantly begin thinking about how I left behind a job that I enjoyed. I loved instructing pilots,I loved the process of procedures, checklists, maneuvers, etc. I loved being in the air and not at a desk, I loved the view, etc.
I constantly find myself thinking about aviation, thinking about what I left behind, and constantly think about how life will be in the 121 world.
Yes, I failed an excessive amount of checkrides, and although I have no one else to blame but myself for the shortcomings, I feel like I have left too quickly.
To sum this update up (not sure if any one even gives a damn), if you find something you are passionate about, and have a point where your back is literally against the wall, keep pushing, and learn from your mistakes before your situation gets worse. There seems to be a lot of anecdotal evidence of many people getting back into aviation who left during the lost decade, and I think that says a lot. I regret leaving when I was pushed allll the way against that wall, and I will admit that. I want to be a part of the 121 life, and do not want to continue to haunt myself with thoughts of what could have been.
I know I will get to a regional, and I will take it as an opportunity to prove that I am indeed a safe, competent pilot, and hopefully that will lead to a job on a bigger jet. No matter where you are in your career, be thankful that you are flying planes, living a passion you found at some point pursuing what can seem like chaos at times, and respect the process. I sure as hell miss it, and am probably crazy enough to leave something stable that I found for work to get back into pursuing a position in an industry that was already risky, unpredictable, and volatile. Now, I am adding my shaky training failures to the equation because I simply cannot envision my life without this pursuit.
Fly safe.
12-28-2018 | 01:14 AM
#33
All is fine at .79
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 4,486
Likes: 42
From: Paahlot
Sounds to me that you had two questionable fails as in questionable decision by the DPE.
Water under the bridge though as they’re on your record.
Don’t know what your hours are now but either go 121 Regional or 135 as they tend to be less anal about irrelevant stuff. Build up a solid career.
Don’t go wallowing in “could have should have”.
I’ve got no fails and I’ll never make it to Fedex or Delta either.
I don’t feel bad about it, should you?
Get on with it before the market turns bad again and back again to the days you won’t be considered for failing a presolo written
Water under the bridge though as they’re on your record.
Don’t know what your hours are now but either go 121 Regional or 135 as they tend to be less anal about irrelevant stuff. Build up a solid career.
Don’t go wallowing in “could have should have”.
I’ve got no fails and I’ll never make it to Fedex or Delta either.
I don’t feel bad about it, should you?
Get on with it before the market turns bad again and back again to the days you won’t be considered for failing a presolo written
12-28-2018 | 07:40 AM
#34
Disinterested Third Party
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,758
Likes: 74
Just stop doing whatever you were doing before to fail checkrides and stop blaming the examiners. Own it, move on.
12-28-2018 | 08:25 AM
#35
Thread Starter
On Reserve
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
12-28-2018 | 08:26 AM
#36
Thread Starter
On Reserve
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Sounds to me that you had two questionable fails as in questionable decision by the DPE.
Water under the bridge though as they’re on your record.
Don’t know what your hours are now but either go 121 Regional or 135 as they tend to be less anal about irrelevant stuff. Build up a solid career.
Don’t go wallowing in “could have should have”.
I’ve got no fails and I’ll never make it to Fedex or Delta either.
I don’t feel bad about it, should you?
Get on with it before the market turns bad again and back again to the days you won’t be considered for failing a presolo written
Water under the bridge though as they’re on your record.
Don’t know what your hours are now but either go 121 Regional or 135 as they tend to be less anal about irrelevant stuff. Build up a solid career.
Don’t go wallowing in “could have should have”.
I’ve got no fails and I’ll never make it to Fedex or Delta either.
I don’t feel bad about it, should you?
Get on with it before the market turns bad again and back again to the days you won’t be considered for failing a presolo written
12-28-2018 | 09:43 AM
#37
Disinterested Third Party
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,758
Likes: 74
Your original post was only six months ago. Your current update makes it sound like a great deal of time has passed, you've moved on, and year for the good old days.
It was six months ago.
Either defecate or vacate the pot, but rumination accomplishes nothing.
Regarding excuses, see previous comments and not just mine.
It was six months ago.
Either defecate or vacate the pot, but rumination accomplishes nothing.
Regarding excuses, see previous comments and not just mine.
12-28-2018 | 10:12 AM
#39
Thread Starter
On Reserve
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
See above comment. Job is not involved within aviation
01-06-2019 | 10:54 AM
#40
Line Holder
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
From: Commercial Pilot
I think one of the worst things you can do is look for more opinions to further your diminish your confidence level.
Everyone has their own path and it’ll workout however you want it to if you’re willing to put in the work. Your piece of plastic is just as important as the guy that passed the first time so explain how you learned from your failures. I have 3 on my primary record and while I thought they were BS but definitely don’t blame anyone but myself, my instructor (30 year delta captain) definitely blames the examiner.
I think about them frequently but they don’t determine my outcome, I do. I’ve since taken 2 rides with successful outcomes on the first try including CFI initial.
Way too many “scholars” on this board that probably prevent decent pilots from pursuing their career because they messed up a maneuver on their private checkride. I can’t tell you how many guys that have no failures that I’ve flown with wondering how they did it. That goes for some CFI’s as well!
Determine what you want to do in aviation and go do it. I personally don’t think it’ll require any more work than the guy with no failures as you’ll be given your opportunity somewhere so take advantage of it!
Last point, too many guys get wrapped up in what they think is the dream job. You might find something else that you didn’t even think of with an incredible QOL and better pay than the 30 year United Captain. Be open to that and enjoy the fact that you have the ability to fly whenever and wherever you want. Good luck and have fun!
Everyone has their own path and it’ll workout however you want it to if you’re willing to put in the work. Your piece of plastic is just as important as the guy that passed the first time so explain how you learned from your failures. I have 3 on my primary record and while I thought they were BS but definitely don’t blame anyone but myself, my instructor (30 year delta captain) definitely blames the examiner.
I think about them frequently but they don’t determine my outcome, I do. I’ve since taken 2 rides with successful outcomes on the first try including CFI initial.
Way too many “scholars” on this board that probably prevent decent pilots from pursuing their career because they messed up a maneuver on their private checkride. I can’t tell you how many guys that have no failures that I’ve flown with wondering how they did it. That goes for some CFI’s as well!
Determine what you want to do in aviation and go do it. I personally don’t think it’ll require any more work than the guy with no failures as you’ll be given your opportunity somewhere so take advantage of it!
Last point, too many guys get wrapped up in what they think is the dream job. You might find something else that you didn’t even think of with an incredible QOL and better pay than the 30 year United Captain. Be open to that and enjoy the fact that you have the ability to fly whenever and wherever you want. Good luck and have fun!
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