rickair7777

Some philosophical truth here.

But here's the cold, hard reality...

All of us know that general aviation training and checking is inconsistent, to say the least. There are quotas (at least informal), and if possible it's best to use an examiner who is well know and close to to either you, your instructor, or close family member. You also need good training, which can be problematic since most students simply don't know what they don't know... they learn the hard way.

So pilots can be forgiving. More so of GA busts. Multiple 121 busts is a real problem because 121 is pretty consistent.

Airlines on the other hand...

As long as they have a choice they prefer pilots with few or zero training problems. Obviously they want pilots who will pass training and fly safe. But a huge consideration for them today is how a pilot's record will appear in the media and courtroom following an accident. Google Colgan + Renslow for a history lesson on that. Unfortunately once you have a history of busts there's no possible way to ever erase that. Frankly the're concerned more with the perception than the reality. Even one bust will slow your progression to the top majors, 2-3 will limit your options, and 4+ will be a big hurdle


No, actually you won't. Might find something you enjoy more, but you will never find that combination of pay and QOL on a W2. You'd have to work for yourself, and it still might very well take 30 years to get there. I've been around the block and have friends who are widebody CA's and friends who own tech businesses.

pilotlyfe

So, I'm currently a part 135 captain on a twin turbine aircraft preparing to apply to the regionals and, to my knowledge, I failed four check rides. I failed my initial private, my private multi add-on, and my cfi single add-on twice (once on the oral and the other on the flight portion). I have never failed any of my 135 rides.

The FAA came out with the Pilot Record's Database online not too long ago and, after creating an account, I was able to view my records. However, under the Notice of Disapprovals section, it only shows two failures. My initial private and my private multi add-on. Can anybody tell me if this means that my cfi add on failures were not counted as failures in this section? When applying to regionals, if they ask how many failures I have, should I put 2 or 4?

Thanks in advance for the responses.

TOGALOCK

The PRD only includes disapproval notices under part 61 that took place after, I believe, 2010. What years did you take each unsuccessful checkride? I find it strange that the earlier failures would be there, but the CFI is not.

In any case, if an airline were to FOIA your FAA file, the pick slips from all unsat rides will likely be in there. They just haven’t been entered into the PRD. ALWAYS be honest in your applications and disclosures. If I were you I would request your full airman file by mail and give it a look through.

viper548

Logbook review is also another place to find the failures. I think with some 135 experience and a clean record there you can show that you've learned from your experiences.

marz7490

I definitely don’t argue against multiple 121 failures. I’d say you’re in pretty hot water if your track record doesn’t stay clean on that end but to say 10-15 years of clean 135 and/or 121 flying with a failure on your private checkride and maybe 2 others will prevent you from flying for a major sounds insane.

I argue your last point about there not being better jobs than major captain gigs. Yes, these are obviously desired for most but I’m pretty surprised by how many positions in aircraft sales and things like that provide much bigger paydays over flying for a major. Obviously extremely hard jobs to come by but I am just pointing out that a job with a major doesn’t need to be the end-all be-all in this industry.

rickair7777

Sounds insane from a pilot perspective but I told you why the majors care... don't want a Renslow (or somebody who looks like one) at a major (OK at a regional, you can just liquidate the whole operation to get rid of the offensive brand... no regional has survived for long after a fatal crash in recent years).

Three busts is going to hurt you bad. Four+ and you probably need to plan on a commuter career (and maybe consider carefully whether you should be flying professionally at all). The competitive demographics are stacked against you... it's hard to find a seasoned pro who has never busted anything. But it's really easy to find tens of thousands who have fewer than three busts...

That's the hard reality. In case you're a millenial... life's not fair.

A far as what's readily available, it's really hard to come up with a better career path to shoot for. Like you said, hard to aspire to be the head of commercial sales at airbus or boeing, or gulfstream, etc. amazing amounts of luck and timing required for gigs like that, only a literal handful of available jobs. There are 10-20 thousand senior airline CA's in the US (depending on what you consider senior).

Now if you're a high-performing individual who just can't sit still for a minute, then there may well be other careers you are better suited for. I spend most of my intellectual and emotional energy on my military career, when I come to work at the airline I'm content to kick back and just watch millions of square miles of ocean go by...

SteveBunch

Obtaining my record request by mail took about six weeks before the shutdown. Go to the FAA website and it lists what address to mail the request to. you can also click a link to send a message to them, but all they do is mail you something with the same address that is on the website. Get it submitted so when the shutdown ends the request will eventually be sent to you.

ChemtrailArtist

I call BS on that. I’ve got multiple busts and got hired by SkyWest, a company with a reputable training program.

dera

+1

I know someone who has 7 checkride busts, and is currently working at a "top tier" regional.

headcase

really?

it has been six months since this was posted. thanks for keeping this thread on the front page though

maybe it will keep people from going to flight schools that think GA check ride failures are no big deal