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Old 06-29-2018, 12:31 PM   #21  
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A friend of mine got hired at PSA then at a legacy with 4 busts. He maintained a completely clean 121 record for at least 8 years so its def. not a career ender.
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Old 06-29-2018, 01:22 PM   #22  
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A friend of mine got hired at PSA then at a legacy with 4 busts. He maintained a completely clean 121 record for at least 8 years so its def. not a career ender.
Was he a flow through or did he apply to a legacy not guaranteed with the flow?
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Old 06-29-2018, 04:34 PM   #23  
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It’s typically 8-10 years from zero hours to a major airline. Plus and misses for timing, the economy, no degree, supply and demand curve, etc, etc.
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Old 06-30-2018, 06:12 AM   #24  
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Whether to go to plan B is your call.

As someone who finished ATP over a decade ago with four failed check rides, I can tell you it has not been fun.

Just PMed you. Would love to hear about the impact it has had on your career.
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Old 06-30-2018, 06:20 AM   #25  
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Just PMed you. Would love to hear about the impact it has had on your career.
You first 10 years in the career will be markedly different than their last 10 years in it...
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Old 06-30-2018, 07:29 AM   #26  
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A friend of mine got hired at PSA then at a legacy with 4 busts. He maintained a completely clean 121 record for at least 8 years so its def. not a career ender.
There are no absolutes. But four primary busts is a big boat anchor, and leaves essentially zero room for "life happens" events between now and the completion of probation at the career-destination airline.

It can certainly be done (although certain top-tier airlines are most likely out of the question), but you would have to live your professional and personal lives like a saint.

There are never absolutes in aviation career progression, but this situation increases the risk and uncertainty. So the really the OP needs to decide how much tolerance for risk he has. If it were just about work ethic, I'd say sure go for it, here's what you have to do so get busy. But there are some factors beyond your control even in 121 training (poor training dept., poor instructor, poor sim buddy, poor DPE). Then once you get on line a poor CA can easily create a violation on your behalf.

The projected industry demographics certainly weigh in his favor on this, but it would be a big problem if the music stopped suddenly for whatever reason.
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Old 06-30-2018, 06:36 PM   #27  
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Just PMed you. Would love to hear about the impact it has had on your career.
Every story has to analyzed in the era it was in. 1960's? Majors were hiring guys with less than 500 hrs TT. 1980's? You needed 2500 hrs, or more, to get on with a good regional (called commuters back then). Ten to fifteen years ago guys were getting regional jobs with 250 hrs TT. Now the law requires 1500 hrs TT.

A decade ago it was tough to get jobs for a lot of guys. But the guys that started back then, and were able to start building their professional resumes, will have great careers as the retirement bubble hits.
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Old 07-01-2018, 08:14 PM   #28  
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I've said this before on this topic, and I'll say it again.

First, unless the people commenting here are actual recruiters from the airlines (either regional, major, legacy), all you're getting here is someone's opinion. If you want the best answer on if those failures are going to affect your "employability," go to a job fair, introduce yourself, strike up a conversation with the recruiters, and explain what happened and how you grew as both a person and a pilot from those failures, that will be the answer. Some companies will say that's disqualifying (and that's fine...you probably don't want to work there anyway). Others will say as long as you can prove that you grew from those experiences and that failures will NEVER happen again, you have a shot. That includes legacies as well (I've heard stories of guys with way more failures than you get hired at certain legacies during past hiring waves). Don't base decisions on your entire career on the opinions of a bunch of anonymous posters on these forums.

Secondly, it is absolutely imperative that this is your attitude going forward:
1. Those failures were 100% YOUR fault
2. They ARE a big deal
3. What you learned/how you grew both personally and professionally from each failure
4. The measures you are taking to ensure any type of failure will never happen again.
You seem to already have this attitude, but I'm saying this again simply because that's how important this is going forward.

Finally, you may not be able to get on with "high-tier regionals" (an oxymoron if I've ever heard one) like Endeavour or Envoy, but there are plenty of regionals that WILL take you, as long as you have the attitude you need to have about those failures. Get on with the first one that hires you, get through training, get through probation, and GET INVOLVED. Do work for your company's safety department, get involved in the training department, get involved with non-political union positions, get through upgrade training, become a check airman, attend (and possibly give) aviation-related presentations at various venues. Show the airlines that you are dedicated to perfecting your craft. And above all, NO MORE FAILURES..EVER. Do whatever it takes to pass, even if it means putting your life on hold for a month or two in order to study.

If the airlines are your goal, and you want it bad enough, you CAN do it. PM me if you have any other questions or want my opinion on anything else. God's speed, and good luck to you, my friend.
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Old 07-01-2018, 08:38 PM   #29  
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One problem with your post - the ‘recruiters’ might be giving you their opinion also. Often times they don’t know the real answer or if they do they’re not allowed to say the real answer. There are NDA’s involved and a ‘need to know’ circle that can be pretty small(less than five people was the word at one point).

There’s been enough “the recruiter said” stories out there that are false. Somewhere along the line the communication broke down and an opinion, random comment, observation, or guess became “the recruiter said.”

Another truism - the people that really know aren’t talking. On general areas, or some specific questions, they might be talking but the nitty gritty of the entire process? I’d have my doubts.
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Old 07-02-2018, 07:19 AM   #30  
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Originally Posted by Sliceback View Post
One problem with your post - the ‘recruiters’ might be giving you their opinion also. Often times they don’t know the real answer or if they do they’re not allowed to say the real answer. There are NDA’s involved and a ‘need to know’ circle that can be pretty small(less than five people was the word at one point).

There’s been enough “the recruiter said” stories out there that are false. Somewhere along the line the communication broke down and an opinion, random comment, observation, or guess became “the recruiter said.”

Another truism - the people that really know aren’t talking. On general areas, or some specific questions, they might be talking but the nitty gritty of the entire process? I’d have my doubts.
Yes. The recruiters will be very, very leery about discussing showstoppers... they are not going to provide ammunition for a future lawsuit. They will tell you what they they would like to see, in terms of the resume. They will probably not talk too much about what they DON'T like to see.
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