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Old 08-31-2019, 06:16 PM   #71  
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Originally Posted by SaltyDog View Post
They may very well bat an eye, but as JohneBurke pointed out (excellent post IMO) it will build a record to show what the OP has learned and applied, and can speak with appropriate humility and confidence he is the right person for the job.
Or, he can collect some Q-3s and an FEB! .

BTW, Iíve been a witness, a board President and recommending officer for FEBs, so donít get too close me.


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Old 02-22-2021, 09:25 PM   #72  
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Default What are my chances?

Failed my check ride 5 times now
4 on private (yeah i know thats unheard of but it happened, 3 with same DPE and 4th with another)
passed instrument and commercial on first try
just failed my CFI-A on the flight portion

If I have a clean record from here on out including CFII, MEL and get myself to 135 operator and build my time, would I have a chance to make it to the regionals and major airlines?
I do have a bachelors degree in engineering and served in the Navy as an officer as well
I've been hearing from people that private check ride doesn't really matter and also CFI-A (because of the 80% fail rate)
but with that being said, I think 4 busts are a lot are a problem for private.
what do you guys think?
Any recruiters here would like to chime in?
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Old 02-22-2021, 09:54 PM   #73  
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Failed my check ride 5 times now
4 on private (yeah i know thats unheard of but it happened, 3 with same DPE and 4th with another)
passed instrument and commercial on first try
just failed my CFI-A on the flight portion

If I have a clean record from here on out including CFII, MEL and get myself to 135 operator and build my time, would I have a chance to make it to the regionals and major airlines?
I do have a bachelors degree in engineering and served in the Navy as an officer as well
I've been hearing from people that private check ride doesn't really matter and also CFI-A (because of the 80% fail rate)
but with that being said, I think 4 busts are a lot are a problem for private.
what do you guys think?
Any recruiters here would like to chime in?
The good news, such as it is...

Since a pre-PPL student pilot is generally at the mercy of his school, CFI, DPE, etc nobody in aviation will take take that as an absolute indictment of you as a pilot.

The bad news... any airline (or high-end corporate employer) will be concerned with how this will look in the media and court-room if you're ever involved in an accident. So public perception counts at least as much as the reality.

You can still work in 91/135, but great jobs are rare and competitive.

You can probably get a regional job eventually. I'm going to say no way for the top-tier majors, too much baggage. You might be able to get a ULCC job eventually if the pilot shortage picks up again after covid. But it's likely to take you longer and you'll frankly need a PERFECT training record at a regional.

Another concern... if this happened when you were an 18 y/o freshman it would be more understandable. But an engineer and former mil officer should be savvy enough to not get jerked around that badly by the system. Interviewers will be wondering what the hell you were thinking. Better have an answer for that question.

Just my gut feel, don't plan your life on that.

That's all assuming that your aviation aptitude is good, you got chewed up by the system as a student pilot, and were one of many who busted the CFI. But you also really need to do a self-evaluation of your aptitude, maybe even talk to past instructors and ask what they think. No point beating your head on the wall if it's just not clicking for you.

Last edited by rickair7777; 02-23-2021 at 07:44 AM.
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Old 02-23-2021, 03:58 AM   #74  
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The optics do not look favorable. Reminds me of an extended family member who failed the state police entrance physical exam 4 times in a row. They used to say ďtheyíll see the initiative and how bad I want it.Ē My words to them is that it shows how completely unprepared you are and shows a complete inability to correct an error.

Check rides throughout your career are about eliminating as many variables as you can. The old ďdonít practice till you get it right, practice until you canít get it wrongĒ applies very much here. Do we all make mistakes? Of course, and some are beyond your control to a certain extent. All this shows any hiring board is that when stress levels are high and you are under pressure, you will not perform. This isnít the end of your professional career, but you wonít find many places willing to take a chance. Odds are, when under pressure you have a high likelihood of failing again, hopefully itís just a check ride. Aviation is for everyone, being a professional aviator is not.

This is likely to be the thought process of a recruiter.

Last edited by usmc-sgt; 02-23-2021 at 04:42 AM.
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Old 02-23-2021, 03:03 PM   #75  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
The good news, such as it is...

Since a pre-PPL student pilot is generally at the mercy of his school, CFI, DPE, etc nobody in aviation will take take that as an absolute indictment of you as a pilot.

The bad news... any airline (or high-end corporate employer) will be concerned with how this will look in the media and court-room if you're ever involved in an accident. So public perception counts at least as much as the reality.

You can still work in 91/135, but great jobs are rare and competitive.

You can probably get a regional job eventually. I'm going to say no way for the top-tier majors, too much baggage. You might be able to get a ULCC job eventually if the pilot shortage picks up again after covid. But it's likely to take you longer and you'll frankly need a PERFECT training record at a regional.

Another concern... if this happened when you were an 18 y/o freshman it would be more understandable. But an engineer and former mil officer should be savvy enough to not get jerked around that badly by the system. Interviewers will be wondering what the hell you were thinking. Better have an answer for that question.

Just my gut feel, don't plan your life on that.

That's all assuming that your aviation aptitude is good, you got chewed up by the system as a student pilot, and were one of many who busted the CFI. But you also really need to do a self-evaluation of your aptitude, maybe even talk to past instructors and ask what they think. No point beating your head on the wall if it's just not clicking for you.
Never say never... I know someone hired at UAL with 6 checkride failures, 1 in 121. It's not impossible, but I agree with your general sentiment; it's highly unlikely.
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Old 02-23-2021, 05:20 PM   #76  
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Never say never... I know someone hired at UAL with 6 checkride failures, 1 in 121. It's not impossible, but I agree with your general sentiment; it's highly unlikely.
Hence my gut-feel disclaimer, doesn't mean I'm right.

Curious though, the person who got hired with all the busts, did they have anything going for them? Nepotism, identity politics, olympic medal?
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Old Yesterday, 06:22 AM   #77  
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Hence my gut-feel disclaimer, doesn't mean I'm right.

Curious though, the person who got hired with all the busts, did they have anything going for them? Nepotism, identity politics, olympic medal?
Identity politics? That's not really an appropriate thing for a moderator to suggest but whatever man, it's your website. he was a LCA and sim instructor with a bit of luck i guess. My point was that it isn't completely impossible to recover from a resume black mark, but will certainly be an uphill battle.
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Old Yesterday, 10:03 AM   #78  
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Identity politics? That's not really an appropriate thing for a moderator to suggest but whatever man, it's your website.
It's a very real thing in our industry, and we're not going to pretend it's not. One glance at recruiting literature is all you need.

It's relevant in analyzing employment opportunities, as are the other things I mentioned. But we're certainly not going to blame any particular pilot for having or not having a possible advantage there. It's not their fault.
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