Unmanned Cargo Aircraft??
04-06-2017, 01:12 PM
#61
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Joined APC: Jul 2016
Posts: 463
Originally Posted by GoHomeLeg
Do you know how long it takes to develop/certify a "regular" jet? Have you considered the business model of most cargo carriers? Are you even a pilot?
Most passenger jets take years (many as much as 10 years) to develop and certify. A UAS will take much longer. Thinking that something could potentially be flying in 15 years is, to put it nicely, generously optimistic.
Cargo carriers, with some exception, typically use retrofitted passenger aircraft to haul boxes around. To assume a cargo carrier is willing to invest in a brand new, unknown, unproven product with huge liability issues is not very realistic.
Everyone love to cite the fact that X% of crashes are due to pilot error. But any pilot can tell you (if you aren't one) that pilots are continuously preventing automation from crashing. How many times have you asked the autopilot what it's doing and overridden it? How is making the system more complicate (unmanned) suddenly going to make it safer? How can unmanned tech match the current safety rate in the industry? Accidents are very, very, very rare.
Most passenger jets take years (many as much as 10 years) to develop and certify. A UAS will take much longer. Thinking that something could potentially be flying in 15 years is, to put it nicely, generously optimistic.
Cargo carriers, with some exception, typically use retrofitted passenger aircraft to haul boxes around. To assume a cargo carrier is willing to invest in a brand new, unknown, unproven product with huge liability issues is not very realistic.
Everyone love to cite the fact that X% of crashes are due to pilot error. But any pilot can tell you (if you aren't one) that pilots are continuously preventing automation from crashing. How many times have you asked the autopilot what it's doing and overridden it? How is making the system more complicate (unmanned) suddenly going to make it safer? How can unmanned tech match the current safety rate in the industry? Accidents are very, very, very rare.
04-06-2017, 01:22 PM
#62
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Joined APC: Nov 2016
Position: 6th place
Posts: 1,826
Originally Posted by GoHomeLeg
Do you know how long it takes to develop/certify a "regular" jet? Have you considered the business model of most cargo carriers? Are you even a pilot?
Most passenger jets take years (many as much as 10 years) to develop and certify. A UAS will take much longer. Thinking that something could potentially be flying in 15 years is, to put it nicely, generously optimistic.
Cargo carriers, with some exception, typically use retrofitted passenger aircraft to haul boxes around. To assume a cargo carrier is willing to invest in a brand new, unknown, unproven product with huge liability issues is not very realistic.
Everyone love to cite the fact that X% of crashes are due to pilot error. But any pilot can tell you (if you aren't one) that pilots are continuously preventing automation from crashing. How many times have you asked the autopilot what it's doing and overridden it? How is making the system more complicate (unmanned) suddenly going to make it safer? How can unmanned tech match the current safety rate in the industry? Accidents are very, very, very rare.
Most passenger jets take years (many as much as 10 years) to develop and certify. A UAS will take much longer. Thinking that something could potentially be flying in 15 years is, to put it nicely, generously optimistic.
Cargo carriers, with some exception, typically use retrofitted passenger aircraft to haul boxes around. To assume a cargo carrier is willing to invest in a brand new, unknown, unproven product with huge liability issues is not very realistic.
Everyone love to cite the fact that X% of crashes are due to pilot error. But any pilot can tell you (if you aren't one) that pilots are continuously preventing automation from crashing. How many times have you asked the autopilot what it's doing and overridden it? How is making the system more complicate (unmanned) suddenly going to make it safer? How can unmanned tech match the current safety rate in the industry? Accidents are very, very, very rare.
Yep. Too bad there's no way to quantify how many times pilots saved airplanes vs crashing them.
04-06-2017, 04:07 PM
#63
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 461
Originally Posted by C130driver
Agreed. There is no benefit for cargo or pax carriers to go "unmanned" (you will always be paying someone to operate it even if it's not from the cockpit.). The costs/liability/risk far outweigh the alleged cost savings.
I had the pleasure to watching the I.T. industry automate more and more over the years. The departments decreased head count by 90-98% and centralize operations.
No single technology was the cause, but remote management, tools, then virtualization, then containerization each had major changes throughout the industry.
The personnel remaining were much better qualified and better paid.
04-08-2017, 02:03 AM
#64
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Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,275
Originally Posted by Radials Rule
Yet, freight trains still have an engineer and a conductor. When freight trains are unmanned, only then should cargo pilots be concerned. Even in that case, it would be at least a decade. Railway unions being stronger than pilot "unions", notwithstanding.
04-08-2017, 02:06 AM
#65
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,275
Originally Posted by Adlerdriver
so.... who's going to make the pax actually buy the ticket and walk onto the pilotless airplane?Seems like they have a choice to me.
Or are you trying to imply that at some point in the future the only choice will be fly on the drone or use ground transpo.
not in anyone's lifetime posting here.
Future choice? Hyperloop will be an option.
04-08-2017, 02:16 AM
#66
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,275
Originally Posted by GoHomeLeg
Do you know how long it takes to develop/certify a "regular" jet? Have you considered the business model of most cargo carriers? Are you even a pilot?
Most passenger jets take years (many as much as 10 years) to develop and certify. A UAS will take much longer. Thinking that something could potentially be flying in 15 years is, to put it nicely, generously optimistic.
Cargo carriers, with some exception, typically use retrofitted passenger aircraft to haul boxes around. To assume a cargo carrier is willing to invest in a brand new, unknown, unproven product with huge liability issues is not very realistic.
Everyone love to cite the fact that X% of crashes are due to pilot error. But any pilot can tell you (if you aren't one) that pilots are continuously preventing automation from crashing. How many times have you asked the autopilot what it's doing and overridden it? How is making the system more complicate (unmanned) suddenly going to make it safer? How can unmanned tech match the current safety rate in the industry? Accidents are very, very, very rare.
Most passenger jets take years (many as much as 10 years) to develop and certify. A UAS will take much longer. Thinking that something could potentially be flying in 15 years is, to put it nicely, generously optimistic.
Cargo carriers, with some exception, typically use retrofitted passenger aircraft to haul boxes around. To assume a cargo carrier is willing to invest in a brand new, unknown, unproven product with huge liability issues is not very realistic.
Everyone love to cite the fact that X% of crashes are due to pilot error. But any pilot can tell you (if you aren't one) that pilots are continuously preventing automation from crashing. How many times have you asked the autopilot what it's doing and overridden it? How is making the system more complicate (unmanned) suddenly going to make it safer? How can unmanned tech match the current safety rate in the industry? Accidents are very, very, very rare.
Actually, I am a cargo pilot, I stand to lose my career should they decide to automate things. I doubt my employer will, as of this month still have at least one flight engineer on the payroll.
So when did you formulate the assenine idea that I am for unmanned cargo aircraft? I simply pointed out that the technology exists, we can do it now. Only peoples opinions and fears are holding it back. It's not like we are trying to design a warp drive.
Updating the regulations, rules, public opinion, etc... That's all trivial crap, from an engineering point of view, it's reality, today.
04-08-2017, 03:02 AM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: FO
Posts: 3,032
Originally Posted by No Land 3
Only peoples opinions and fears are holding it back.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/national/drone-crashes/database/
9/01 thru 12/2013 accidents that resulted in loss of aircraft or >2 million dollars of damage.
47 in the USA
194 worldwide
Oct. 30, 2013Predator, Air Force
REPORTED LOCATION
about 6 miles northwest of Holloman Air Force Base; White Sands, N.M., United States
WHAT HAPPENED
A Predator crashed about six miles northwest of the runway at Holloman Air Force Base about 1:30 p.m. during a training mission. Air Force officials said pilots lost link with the aircraft. The Air Combat Command convened an Accident Investigation Board; the public report is pending.
04-08-2017, 03:47 AM
#68
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,275
Originally Posted by BlueMoon
Just that and a pretty long record of crashes.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/national/drone-crashes/database/
9/01 thru 12/2013 accidents that resulted in loss of aircraft or >2 million dollars of damage.
47 in the USA
194 worldwide
Oct. 30, 2013Predator, Air Force
REPORTED LOCATION
about 6 miles northwest of Holloman Air Force Base; White Sands, N.M., United States
WHAT HAPPENED
A Predator crashed about six miles northwest of the runway at Holloman Air Force Base about 1:30 p.m. during a training mission. Air Force officials said pilots lost link with the aircraft. The Air Combat Command convened an Accident Investigation Board; the public report is pending.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/national/drone-crashes/database/
9/01 thru 12/2013 accidents that resulted in loss of aircraft or >2 million dollars of damage.
47 in the USA
194 worldwide
Oct. 30, 2013Predator, Air Force
REPORTED LOCATION
about 6 miles northwest of Holloman Air Force Base; White Sands, N.M., United States
WHAT HAPPENED
A Predator crashed about six miles northwest of the runway at Holloman Air Force Base about 1:30 p.m. during a training mission. Air Force officials said pilots lost link with the aircraft. The Air Combat Command convened an Accident Investigation Board; the public report is pending.
04-08-2017, 05:19 AM
#69
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: FO
Posts: 3,032
Originally Posted by No Land 3
A proper UAV only needs to be given updated commands, sounds like your example is much more of a radio control airplane.
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