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Old 06-16-2007, 04:21 PM   #1  
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Default Fdx Hkg/cdg Cola

Ok, just thought I'd throw this one out there for everyone to chew on and chime in with there thoughts...

We all know that living and being based in Paris or Hong Kong would warrant extra pay to adjust for the cost of living in two of the most expensive cities in the world...but how much more?

Last night at dinner the 'word on the street' is the adjustments has been agreed upon by union&company and it is an additional $2,700 a month. I thought that seemed a bit on the low side and we might have some junior guys jump on it but when you factor everything else in it looks like a pay cut to me (depending on where you live of course). Housing, food and transporatation cost can add up quick and I have no idea what the tax implications are...

Thoughts??? (I know, stupid question)
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Old 06-16-2007, 04:53 PM   #2  
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Originally Posted by PurpleTail View Post
Ok, just thought I'd throw this one out there for everyone to chew on and chime in with there thoughts...

We all know that living and being based in Paris or Hong Kong would warrant extra pay to adjust for the cost of living in two of the most expensive cities in the world...but how much more?

Last night at dinner the 'word on the street' is the adjustments has been agreed upon by union&company and it is an additional $2,700 a month. I thought that seemed a bit on the low side and we might have some junior guys jump on it but when you factor everything else in it looks like a pay cut to me (depending on where you live of course). Housing, food and transporatation cost can add up quick and I have no idea what the tax implications are...

Thoughts??? (I know, stupid question)
One thing everyone must keep in mind. Under this contract, MGT can open HKG or CDG or anywhere else for that matter without any say from the UNION at all.

In other words this contract already permits MGT to open another FDA. All they have to do is POST for it in a new standing BID and I believe any FDA standing BID takes 45 days to close. All the company is required to do is POST it and to pay the FDA move package. The UNION doesn't have a whole lot of leverage to Demand, they can request.
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Old 06-16-2007, 07:21 PM   #3  
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One thing everyone must keep in mind. Under this contract, MGT can open HKG or CDG or anywhere else for that matter without any say from the UNION at all.

In other words this contract already permits MGT to open another FDA. All they have to do is POST for it in a new standing BID and I believe any FDA standing BID takes 45 days to close. All the company is required to do is POST it and to pay the FDA move package. The UNION doesn't have a whole lot of leverage to Demand, they can request.
I agree...
If you don't like it, don't bid it!!!
Force the company to sweeten the pot.
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Old 06-16-2007, 07:31 PM   #4  
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PT, I have been giving this much consideration and a little bit of research. As a 50% MD FO, I "might" be able to hold Capt in a CDG 757. I tried to look at how much a flat costs in Paris but it was Sunday on my last layover. However, here's what I am looking at:

As a single guy, I would try to room with another single Capt at around the same seniority and then it could be possible to have a nice place in the city. The challenge comes with transpo; do both of you need a car to get to/from the arpt? Parking is extra and what I did find out is that it costs you 50-100 euro more a month to park a car in a space your tenant allows. Since you're around the same seniority it would be doubtful that both of you would always be there at the same time. Vacation differences, training differences, etc... will afford plenty of time w/o a roomie hanging around, IMHO.

I am concerned about the exchange rate and already being behind on the curve by 30% there. Not worried about the price of gas (I only drive 15 days per month now anyway) or groceries, or wine for that fact! The only real cranium scratcher is transpo.

As far as HKG goes, it'll probably be wide-body. And I know it's a very expensive city but there's a HUGE expat community there. I know a Cathay 777 Capt who lives in HKG and he lives on a boat in one of the harbours.

Either place has lots of US expats there so there's knowledge on the street, we've just got to find it. And find out what or how much Fred is going to open up his wallet to make this happen.
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Old 06-16-2007, 09:16 PM   #5  
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Originally Posted by Magenta Line View Post
PT, I have been giving this much consideration and a little bit of research. As a 50% MD FO, I "might" be able to hold Capt in a CDG 757. I tried to look at how much a flat costs in Paris but it was Sunday on my last layover. However, here's what I am looking at:

As a single guy, I would try to room with another single Capt at around the same seniority and then it could be possible to have a nice place in the city. The challenge comes with transpo; do both of you need a car to get to/from the arpt? Parking is extra and what I did find out is that it costs you 50-100 euro more a month to park a car in a space your tenant allows. Since you're around the same seniority it would be doubtful that both of you would always be there at the same time. Vacation differences, training differences, etc... will afford plenty of time w/o a roomie hanging around, IMHO.

I am concerned about the exchange rate and already being behind on the curve by 30% there. Not worried about the price of gas (I only drive 15 days per month now anyway) or groceries, or wine for that fact! The only real cranium scratcher is transpo.

As far as HKG goes, it'll probably be wide-body. And I know it's a very expensive city but there's a HUGE expat community there. I know a Cathay 777 Capt who lives in HKG and he lives on a boat in one of the harbours.

Either place has lots of US expats there so there's knowledge on the street, we've just got to find it. And find out what or how much Fred is going to open up his wallet to make this happen.
Magenta,

I am presently in the pool but have a lot of knowledge about HKG. My fiancee' lives in Zhuhai, which is across the river delta about an hour's ferry ride. Public transportation in HKG is very simple and you can take the speed train to the airport.

Zhuhai would be my first choice for getting a place, and it is easy to get to HKG if that is going to be the base. I understand the Guangzhoe is a possibility also. I understand the Chinese want a huge head tax per pilot.

Anyway, if anyone has any questions, please feel free to ask.

Whale.
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Old 06-16-2007, 11:25 PM   #6  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magenta Line View Post
PT, I have been giving this much consideration and a little bit of research. As a 50% MD FO, I "might" be able to hold Capt in a CDG 757. I tried to look at how much a flat costs in Paris but it was Sunday on my last layover. However, here's what I am looking at:

As a single guy, I would try to room with another single Capt at around the same seniority and then it could be possible to have a nice place in the city. The challenge comes with transpo; do both of you need a car to get to/from the arpt? Parking is extra and what I did find out is that it costs you 50-100 euro more a month to park a car in a space your tenant allows. Since you're around the same seniority it would be doubtful that both of you would always be there at the same time. Vacation differences, training differences, etc... will afford plenty of time w/o a roomie hanging around, IMHO.

I am concerned about the exchange rate and already being behind on the curve by 30% there. Not worried about the price of gas (I only drive 15 days per month now anyway) or groceries, or wine for that fact! The only real cranium scratcher is transpo.

As far as HKG goes, it'll probably be wide-body. And I know it's a very expensive city but there's a HUGE expat community there. I know a Cathay 777 Capt who lives in HKG and he lives on a boat in one of the harbours.

Either place has lots of US expats there so there's knowledge on the street, we've just got to find it. And find out what or how much Fred is going to open up his wallet to make this happen.
If an outsider can throw 2 cents in...

Magenta what you say sounds like it might be doable for single guys. Quite a different story though for those married and with family. Do you think there is a large enough pool of single guys that may be able to fill a lot of the slots over there.

Also with the number of 75s planned for Paris does anyone know how many pilots the company is looking at trying to base over there??
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Old 06-17-2007, 06:53 AM   #7  
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All I know is that NON-Pilot FedEx employees are getting it ALL. They get a Cola for the increase in living expense (cost to buy milk) but the company is paying out of their pocket EVERYTHING...

$65,000 School Deposit + $15,000 a year per kid...
FedEx leases an appartment and makes the payments...
FedEx gives an allowance to leases a car...
Taxes...ect, ect...

So the company is making more than enough money to take care of SOME of its employees...we shouldn't have to arm wrestle to see how many pennys we can get.

BWP..out
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Old 06-17-2007, 08:09 AM   #8  
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That is a a good start BWP, but I think it should go beyond that.

The company should offer an incentive for putting yourself and your family out to further the company's goals. It goes beyond taking care of the extra money required just to exist over there. It should come in the form of additional income as an incentive for exposing yourself to the issues that come with living in a foreign country.

Personally I don't see why anyone would want to live there without being adequately compensated.
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Old 06-17-2007, 08:09 AM   #9  
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Originally Posted by BigWatchPilot View Post
All I know is that NON-Pilot FedEx employees are getting it ALL. They get a Cola for the increase in living expense (cost to buy milk) but the company is paying out of their pocket EVERYTHING...

$65,000 School Deposit + $15,000 a year per kid...
FedEx leases an appartment and makes the payments...
FedEx gives an allowance to leases a car...
Taxes...ect, ect...

So the company is making more than enough money to take care of SOME of its employees...we shouldn't have to arm wrestle to see how many pennys we can get.

BWP..out
One of the downsides to being the only union on property; if it's not in the CBA, we don't get it. Unfortunately, yes we do have to arm-wrestle to see how many pennies we can get. It's called negotiating an LOA.
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Old 06-17-2007, 10:16 AM   #10  
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Actually, I bet they don't want us to go. Then they can go to an arbitrator and say we can't get the US pilots to go, so we have to break the scope and use foreign pilots in the overseas domiciles. Arbitrator will find in the company's favor at that point.......Something to ponder anyway.

I think they are doing the same thing with the flex instructors and fly day issue. Management is going to start using professional instructors except for checkrides and lofts because they don't have enough flexes. I wonder how long it will be before an arbitrator agrees that the company can use pros for checkrides?
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