The last ATSG contract took 7 yrs to renew. ATI has a long way to go before a new contract. 4 yrs is nothing....

As was said by all three of the legacy carrier managements as they kept reducing hiring requirememnts; and was said by every regional out there that are now paying Captains over double what they were just 5 years ago..... yet for the legacies, all three now have identical pay rates for same equipment.
So, I'd say you're wrong on that. They will pay when they have no choice.

Kinda depends again on your contract and CBA. A good scope section takes care of that. Just like regionals cant fly over 76 seats or 89,000 lb GTOW aircraft

True, ATSG does view the two contracts as cost neutral to eachother, even though the softmoney differences at ABX add up to a bit more.
The part I can't fathom is your ExCo signing an NDA and then doing a closed door deal for an extension with such minimal improvements.... it kinda sabotages both ATI & Omni.

I can see where if the membership is convinced a recession is about to hit hard, and not soft, that getting gains now, any gains, is better than nothing. If that was the majority concern then I guess you guys reached your objective. Congrats then.

Time to do what Atlas did when they acquired Polar and Southern, keep all three certs, 119s for all three certs. Merge the pilot groups into one group with same contract and just have them to fly all three tails

You can't fathom that? That is exactly what ATI did when they signed the horible contract they have now, setting the bar for ABX's current contract. ABX exco tried to have one seniority list as a common front against whipsawing pilot group. ATI instead signed a Captains only 3% pay raise to aquire additional flying and ABX aircraft, and not negotiate a new contract for 2 yrs. Can you fathom that?

We're never going to get a scope that makes us the sole operator of 767s anywhere, and even the scope that we did have was killing us. As a result of the 2016 strike, all Amazon growth beyond the 6 -200s we were operating was given to ATI. Due to our intra-ATSG scope, our customers refused to give us any more business specifically because they could not move it if they wanted to.

How do you know whether or not our ExCo signed an NDA? Whether they did or did not, they can't tell us. The ExCo has been meeting regularly with management since we signed the last deal, pushing for improvements that would make ABX a better place to stay. Management offered a one-time, limited-scope opportunity to address some of the things that have come up most frequently in surveys of the membership and in exit interviews. It was not going to be a full-blown wide-ranging back-and-forth negotiation. We were not going to set the world on fire with this - it was a chance to make some incremental improvements, at least one of which I think was pretty significant to everyone. Others are less tangible but are improvements nonetheless. The choice was to take some improvements now or maintain the status quo until at least 2030, probably 2032. Why would we not take that? The time for setting the world on fire was the last two years that left ATI in the position of hiring street captains. It didn't happen. It's not happening. We have one customer and ATSG offered us a chance to position ourselves for growth. On May 4, we'll count the votes and know whether we have decided to take it.

Except Atlas gave up the Southern certificate 2+ years ago. Everyone is an Atlas pilot that occasionally flys a Polar flight.

Your last sentence is the point.

Yeah, I can fathom that you're upset they did it because it was wrong.... and instead of fixing it, you did exactly what they did after saying how wrong it was.
Keep fighting and the only winner is ATSG

I'm not sticking up for them either, they shouldn't have done it.

You don't need that. All three groups just need one that says they can't transfer away hulls to a sister or new company; and can't create or buy a new company for new hulls.

stop right there. Yes, they can say if they signed an NDA or not, if fact, if asked by a member they HAVE to answer. I've been in their shoes and signed one for a different matter; your membership has an absolute right to know if you did or not. The NDA is not secret, the information obtained as a result of signing it is confidential.

Only because your leadership aquiessed to managements terms of making it small and limited. Section six is section six.
As I said earlier, if the reasoning was the membership expects the recession to hit harder than folks think and recovery will be longer, so grabbing any improvements before then was a smart move. So far, nobody has said that was the reasoning, and instead argued about what somebody else did, or management said we couldn't do more.

You aren't an American Airlines, you'd be released to self help much sooner than that.

Anything they are offering is chump change, and they'll offer it to the next pilot group too.... Just like they tried to get all three groups to bite on the A330's a year or two ago in exchange for just a few more concessions.... they have a pattern, it's plain to see. The winning move is to not play their game by thier rules.

And you have been leading the charge at your airline, how's that working out?