ATI Updated Info
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#192
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So, I'd say you're wrong on that. They will pay when they have no choice.
"Better" is in the eye of the beholder. At the moment (for at least a few more days, anyway), the overall cost of our two agreements is about even. We just chose different ways to allocate the money. ATI loves their home basing. We chose to put the value of that in other places that we like more.
The part I can't fathom is your ExCo signing an NDA and then doing a closed door deal for an extension with such minimal improvements.... it kinda sabotages both ATI & Omni.
I can see where if the membership is convinced a recession is about to hit hard, and not soft, that getting gains now, any gains, is better than nothing. If that was the majority concern then I guess you guys reached your objective. Congrats then.
#193
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Joined APC: Dec 2021
Posts: 106
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As was said by all three of the legacy carrier managements as they kept reducing hiring requirememnts; and was said by every regional out there that are now paying Captains over double what they were just 5 years ago..... yet for the legacies, all three now have identical pay rates for same equipment.
So, I'd say you're wrong on that. They will pay when they have no choice.
Kinda depends again on your contract and CBA. A good scope section takes care of that. Just like regionals cant fly over 76 seats or 89,000 lb GTOW aircraft
True, ATSG does view the two contracts as cost neutral to eachother, even though the softmoney differences at ABX add up to a bit more.
The part I can't fathom is your ExCo signing an NDA and then doing a closed door deal for an extension with such minimal improvements.... it kinda sabotages both ATI & Omni.
I can see where if the membership is convinced a recession is about to hit hard, and not soft, that getting gains now, any gains, is better than nothing. If that was the majority concern then I guess you guys reached your objective. Congrats then.
So, I'd say you're wrong on that. They will pay when they have no choice.
Kinda depends again on your contract and CBA. A good scope section takes care of that. Just like regionals cant fly over 76 seats or 89,000 lb GTOW aircraft
True, ATSG does view the two contracts as cost neutral to eachother, even though the softmoney differences at ABX add up to a bit more.
The part I can't fathom is your ExCo signing an NDA and then doing a closed door deal for an extension with such minimal improvements.... it kinda sabotages both ATI & Omni.
I can see where if the membership is convinced a recession is about to hit hard, and not soft, that getting gains now, any gains, is better than nothing. If that was the majority concern then I guess you guys reached your objective. Congrats then.
#194
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,849
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As was said by all three of the legacy carrier managements as they kept reducing hiring requirememnts; and was said by every regional out there that are now paying Captains over double what they were just 5 years ago..... yet for the legacies, all three now have identical pay rates for same equipment.
So, I'd say you're wrong on that. They will pay when they have no choice.
Kinda depends again on your contract and CBA. A good scope section takes care of that. Just like regionals cant fly over 76 seats or 89,000 lb GTOW aircraft
True, ATSG does view the two contracts as cost neutral to eachother, even though the softmoney differences at ABX add up to a bit more.
The part I can't fathom is your ExCo signing an NDA and then doing a closed door deal for an extension with such minimal improvements.... it kinda sabotages both ATI & Omni.
I can see where if the membership is convinced a recession is about to hit hard, and not soft, that getting gains now, any gains, is better than nothing. If that was the majority concern then I guess you guys reached your objective. Congrats then.
So, I'd say you're wrong on that. They will pay when they have no choice.
Kinda depends again on your contract and CBA. A good scope section takes care of that. Just like regionals cant fly over 76 seats or 89,000 lb GTOW aircraft
True, ATSG does view the two contracts as cost neutral to eachother, even though the softmoney differences at ABX add up to a bit more.
The part I can't fathom is your ExCo signing an NDA and then doing a closed door deal for an extension with such minimal improvements.... it kinda sabotages both ATI & Omni.
I can see where if the membership is convinced a recession is about to hit hard, and not soft, that getting gains now, any gains, is better than nothing. If that was the majority concern then I guess you guys reached your objective. Congrats then.
#195
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Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: Left, right & center
Posts: 809
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The part I can't fathom is your ExCo signing an NDA and then doing a closed door deal for an extension with such minimal improvements.... it kinda sabotages both ATI & Omni.
#196
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Joined APC: Jun 2017
Position: 777 Left window seat
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Except Atlas gave up the Southern certificate 2+ years ago. Everyone is an Atlas pilot that occasionally flys a Polar flight.
#198
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You can't fathom that? That is exactly what ATI did when they signed the horible contract they have now, setting the bar for ABX's current contract. ABX exco tried to have one seniority list as a common front against whipsawing pilot group. ATI instead signed a Captains only 3% pay raise to aquire additional flying and ABX aircraft, and not negotiate a new contract for 2 yrs. Can you fathom that?
Keep fighting and the only winner is ATSG
I'm not sticking up for them either, they shouldn't have done it.
Last edited by Cujo665; 05-05-2024 at 06:25 AM.
#199
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We're never going to get a scope that makes us the sole operator of 767s anywhere, and even the scope that we did have was killing us. As a result of the 2016 strike, all Amazon growth beyond the 6 -200s we were operating was given to ATI. Due to our intra-ATSG scope, our customers refused to give us any more business specifically because they could not move it if they wanted to.
The ExCo has been meeting regularly with management since we signed the last deal, pushing for improvements that would make ABX a better place to stay. Management offered a one-time, limited-scope opportunity to address some of the things that have come up most frequently in surveys of the membership and in exit interviews. It was not going to be a full-blown wide-ranging back-and-forth negotiation. We were not going to set the world on fire with this - it was a chance to make some incremental improvements, at least one of which I think was pretty significant to everyone.
As I said earlier, if the reasoning was the membership expects the recession to hit harder than folks think and recovery will be longer, so grabbing any improvements before then was a smart move. So far, nobody has said that was the reasoning, and instead argued about what somebody else did, or management said we couldn't do more.
The time for setting the world on fire was the last two years that left ATI in the position of hiring street captains. It didn't happen. It's not happening. We have one customer and ATSG offered us a chance to position ourselves for growth. On May 4, we'll count the votes and know whether we have decided to take it.
#200
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Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,849
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And you have been leading the charge at your airline, how's that working out?
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