Practice bid
10-23-2007, 03:45 PM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
Originally Posted by gcsass
Am I reading this right? They were looking for 44 HKG F/O's and got 11. They were looking for 37 CDG F/O's and got 29. Is that correct or am I misreading the whole thing?
No, that can't be right. The union told me it would go senior.
fumph! (Sound of me sticking my head in the sand arm in arm with my ALPA brothers)
Now is the time for the MEM 757 awardees to get their "STV Magnet" T-shirts.
For those you who missed it, STV is why the LOA will not be sweetened one bit. Don't have to.
10-23-2007, 06:54 PM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 2,889
The million dollar question, and one that will set the tone for all future negotations with the company, will be HOW the company fills the vacancies.
If they go hard core, and use STVs to the max extent possible....without either sweetening the deal or bringing in guys out of the pool willing to do the job, then I think the dollars they save today will cost them in future negotations with a hardened and wary crew force.
If they suck it up and offer some additional carrots, or find a way to bring some new folks on the team who WANT those jobs--they'll pay some extra coin. And folks will go on blissfully disinterested in what does not directly affect them (see: LOA vote, turnout on about any union election, or DP discussions...) And the next round of negotations will be interesting.
The fact is we gave up control of any of this outcome by voting in the LOA. What happens after 19 November can be handled in any way allowed by the CBA, which now includes involuntary assignments for 30 days. By my math, 31 shortfalls x 1 STV every 6 months = number of A300 F/Os potentially affected. Add the guys who can or will have to opt out for military leave issues or family considerations, and I'd say you can add 20% to that number. So...between 2008 and 2010 I can see (a bad but not worst case scenario) a situation where the bottom 200+ guys on the MEM A300 list are affected. This LOA has the potential to be a LOT bigger than shortchanging 80-100 guys who "were going to move there anyway..."
FedEX MEC gave away the driver's seat when they signed this LOA and then pushed the membership to support it. The single driving factor now is what happens next is now up to management. That's not a damning statement---I don't think everything management ever does is wrong, evil, or a bad plan. I just find it quite shocking with something as "personal" as junior manning issues, we gave the company the hammer on this one. What they do with that hammer the next 12 months is going to paint a huge picture of their plans to deal with the crew force in the future.
And if you look...you'll see I bid the 'bus. I'm still stewing. Is being sent away from home twice a year a month at a pop a huge deal? It depends...on when, how, etc etc. I wish there was a way to know what was going to happen PRIOR to the bid closing, but it won't happen--so anyone 200 or so from the bottom....or anyone bidding the 757....is taking the risk of getting 2 months away next year at an inopportune time. End of the world? Maybe not... But it certainly needs to be a consideration in your personal bidding matrix.
If they go hard core, and use STVs to the max extent possible....without either sweetening the deal or bringing in guys out of the pool willing to do the job, then I think the dollars they save today will cost them in future negotations with a hardened and wary crew force.
If they suck it up and offer some additional carrots, or find a way to bring some new folks on the team who WANT those jobs--they'll pay some extra coin. And folks will go on blissfully disinterested in what does not directly affect them (see: LOA vote, turnout on about any union election, or DP discussions...) And the next round of negotations will be interesting.
The fact is we gave up control of any of this outcome by voting in the LOA. What happens after 19 November can be handled in any way allowed by the CBA, which now includes involuntary assignments for 30 days. By my math, 31 shortfalls x 1 STV every 6 months = number of A300 F/Os potentially affected. Add the guys who can or will have to opt out for military leave issues or family considerations, and I'd say you can add 20% to that number. So...between 2008 and 2010 I can see (a bad but not worst case scenario) a situation where the bottom 200+ guys on the MEM A300 list are affected. This LOA has the potential to be a LOT bigger than shortchanging 80-100 guys who "were going to move there anyway..."
FedEX MEC gave away the driver's seat when they signed this LOA and then pushed the membership to support it. The single driving factor now is what happens next is now up to management. That's not a damning statement---I don't think everything management ever does is wrong, evil, or a bad plan. I just find it quite shocking with something as "personal" as junior manning issues, we gave the company the hammer on this one. What they do with that hammer the next 12 months is going to paint a huge picture of their plans to deal with the crew force in the future.
And if you look...you'll see I bid the 'bus. I'm still stewing. Is being sent away from home twice a year a month at a pop a huge deal? It depends...on when, how, etc etc. I wish there was a way to know what was going to happen PRIOR to the bid closing, but it won't happen--so anyone 200 or so from the bottom....or anyone bidding the 757....is taking the risk of getting 2 months away next year at an inopportune time. End of the world? Maybe not... But it certainly needs to be a consideration in your personal bidding matrix.
10-23-2007, 08:43 PM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 478
Originally Posted by Albief15
The million dollar question, and one that will set the tone for all future negotations with the company, will be HOW the company fills the vacancies.
10-23-2007, 08:53 PM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 757 Capt
Posts: 2,418
Some of us answered, and some of us just did the yeah dear whatever response since we weren't listening
downside is those of us who were listening are the ones most impacted by the decision this crew force made
anyways, next 2 years should be interesting
downside is those of us who were listening are the ones most impacted by the decision this crew force made
anyways, next 2 years should be interesting
10-24-2007, 12:30 AM
#56
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 47
Originally Posted by Albief15
The million dollar question, and one that will set the tone for all future negotations with the company, will be HOW the company fills the vacancies.
If they go hard core, and use STVs to the max extent possible....without either sweetening the deal or bringing in guys out of the pool willing to do the job, then I think the dollars they save today will cost them in future negotations with a hardened and wary crew force.
If they suck it up and offer some additional carrots, or find a way to bring some new folks on the team who WANT those jobs--they'll pay some extra coin. And folks will go on blissfully disinterested in what does not directly affect them (see: LOA vote, turnout on about any union election, or DP discussions...) And the next round of negotations will be interesting.
The fact is we gave up control of any of this outcome by voting in the LOA. What happens after 19 November can be handled in any way allowed by the CBA, which now includes involuntary assignments for 30 days. By my math, 31 shortfalls x 1 STV every 6 months = number of A300 F/Os potentially affected. Add the guys who can or will have to opt out for military leave issues or family considerations, and I'd say you can add 20% to that number. So...between 2008 and 2010 I can see (a bad but not worst case scenario) a situation where the bottom 200+ guys on the MEM A300 list are affected. This LOA has the potential to be a LOT bigger than shortchanging 80-100 guys who "were going to move there anyway..."
FedEX MEC gave away the driver's seat when they signed this LOA and then pushed the membership to support it. The single driving factor now is what happens next is now up to management. That's not a damning statement---I don't think everything management ever does is wrong, evil, or a bad plan. I just find it quite shocking with something as "personal" as junior manning issues, we gave the company the hammer on this one. What they do with that hammer the next 12 months is going to paint a huge picture of their plans to deal with the crew force in the future.
And if you look...you'll see I bid the 'bus. I'm still stewing. Is being sent away from home twice a year a month at a pop a huge deal? It depends...on when, how, etc etc. I wish there was a way to know what was going to happen PRIOR to the bid closing, but it won't happen--so anyone 200 or so from the bottom....or anyone bidding the 757....is taking the risk of getting 2 months away next year at an inopportune time. End of the world? Maybe not... But it certainly needs to be a consideration in your personal bidding matrix.
If they go hard core, and use STVs to the max extent possible....without either sweetening the deal or bringing in guys out of the pool willing to do the job, then I think the dollars they save today will cost them in future negotations with a hardened and wary crew force.
If they suck it up and offer some additional carrots, or find a way to bring some new folks on the team who WANT those jobs--they'll pay some extra coin. And folks will go on blissfully disinterested in what does not directly affect them (see: LOA vote, turnout on about any union election, or DP discussions...) And the next round of negotations will be interesting.
The fact is we gave up control of any of this outcome by voting in the LOA. What happens after 19 November can be handled in any way allowed by the CBA, which now includes involuntary assignments for 30 days. By my math, 31 shortfalls x 1 STV every 6 months = number of A300 F/Os potentially affected. Add the guys who can or will have to opt out for military leave issues or family considerations, and I'd say you can add 20% to that number. So...between 2008 and 2010 I can see (a bad but not worst case scenario) a situation where the bottom 200+ guys on the MEM A300 list are affected. This LOA has the potential to be a LOT bigger than shortchanging 80-100 guys who "were going to move there anyway..."
FedEX MEC gave away the driver's seat when they signed this LOA and then pushed the membership to support it. The single driving factor now is what happens next is now up to management. That's not a damning statement---I don't think everything management ever does is wrong, evil, or a bad plan. I just find it quite shocking with something as "personal" as junior manning issues, we gave the company the hammer on this one. What they do with that hammer the next 12 months is going to paint a huge picture of their plans to deal with the crew force in the future.
And if you look...you'll see I bid the 'bus. I'm still stewing. Is being sent away from home twice a year a month at a pop a huge deal? It depends...on when, how, etc etc. I wish there was a way to know what was going to happen PRIOR to the bid closing, but it won't happen--so anyone 200 or so from the bottom....or anyone bidding the 757....is taking the risk of getting 2 months away next year at an inopportune time. End of the world? Maybe not... But it certainly needs to be a consideration in your personal bidding matrix.
Aaron, first of all Congrats! Second of all, if you do the bus I will be there with you in HKG because of the STV BS that BC and DW shoved down our throats. My last airline(major) when the MEC chairman did this type of Sh$t the membership had the balls to recall his sorry butt. Maybe we should follow suit. Because like you said, the future of our negotiations are going to be affected. Least it is only 2 months out of the year and not the entire year that we could be over there. Another one that needs midol!
10-24-2007, 12:33 AM
#57
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: A300 HKG CPT
Posts: 14
First time poster, not much of a lurker, as a subic fo only was wondering what the rest were thinking as far as the LOA was going. Anyway, now that the first practice bid has come out and I find myself lurking again I suddenly feel compelled to post, only because hanging at OG today for afternoon cocktails I saw a quote that reminds me of this pilot group...
This group requires no exercise...
Everyone gets enough exercise
Jumping to conclusions,
Flying off the handle,
Knifing friends in the back (ie DW and BC),
Dodging responsibility,
And pushing their luck!
Just my humble opinion. BTW I was one of the chics who bid CDG.
gypsy
This group requires no exercise...
Everyone gets enough exercise
Jumping to conclusions,
Flying off the handle,
Knifing friends in the back (ie DW and BC),
Dodging responsibility,
And pushing their luck!
Just my humble opinion. BTW I was one of the chics who bid CDG.
gypsy
10-24-2007, 06:39 AM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Completely Apolitical Nonsensical Slogan that has nothing to do with politics in the slightest....
Posts: 160
Originally Posted by gypsy
BTW I was one of the chics who bid CDG.
gypsy
gypsy
As far as the LOA is concerned, it's woefully inadequate. I'm on the CDG list too, but not for long.
Since you brought it up, why did a bunch of SFS folks bid back to the 75, when you could probably hold SIBA europe, plus CDG will probably end up being a Bus base next year (if you believe the propaganda, I know I know.... don't believe it until it's on the ramp painted purple).
Just curious,
TSD
10-24-2007, 07:42 AM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
Originally Posted by gypsy
First time poster, not much of a lurker, as a subic fo only was wondering what the rest were thinking as far as the LOA was going. Anyway, now that the first practice bid has come out and I find myself lurking again I suddenly feel compelled to post, only because hanging at OG today for afternoon cocktails I saw a quote that reminds me of this pilot group...
This group requires no exercise...
Everyone gets enough exercise
Jumping to conclusions,
Flying off the handle,
Knifing friends in the back (ie DW and BC),
Dodging responsibility,
And pushing their luck!
Just my humble opinion. BTW I was one of the chics who bid CDG.
gypsy
This group requires no exercise...
Everyone gets enough exercise
Jumping to conclusions,
Flying off the handle,
Knifing friends in the back (ie DW and BC),
Dodging responsibility,
And pushing their luck!
Just my humble opinion. BTW I was one of the chics who bid CDG.
gypsy
BTW the new hires in HKG will be supplementing your income in CDG thanks to tax equalization.
10-24-2007, 07:51 AM
#60
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: A300 HKG CPT
Posts: 14
TSD-
I can only speak for myself, I would be at the bottom of the current SIBA list which would put me sitting reserve in Memphis, not what I want to do. If they put the bus in Paris then I will bid it for sure, not really looking forward to the pay cut. Basically I'm having way too much fun living abroad and I'm not ready to come back. As for the rest of the SFS guys...you'd have to ask them.
gypsy
I can only speak for myself, I would be at the bottom of the current SIBA list which would put me sitting reserve in Memphis, not what I want to do. If they put the bus in Paris then I will bid it for sure, not really looking forward to the pay cut. Basically I'm having way too much fun living abroad and I'm not ready to come back. As for the rest of the SFS guys...you'd have to ask them.
gypsy
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