FDX Trip Rig questions
12-10-2007, 03:38 AM
#32
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Originally Posted by MD11Fr8Dog
Anything with TAFB > than 22+30 will pay more (22+30/3.75 = 6CH).
12-10-2007, 05:35 AM
#33
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Funniest quote of the week...
Originally Posted by BrownGirls YUM
All good points, and admittedly, I've been looking more at my bidpack than system-wide. But I'm not saying you are getting "ripped off" when you can't knock out a 7-hr hard time trip with 6 hours of vacation. I've merely identified that there has been some loss in what you can knock out on TAFB trips with vacation and sick leave. It isn't big. It's very small.
The insipidness of it concerns me almost as much as the vehement denial that it amounts to a giveback, however small it may be.
.....And I do like the fact that most of my trips are worth more now.
To me, it's probably worth the giveback. Just don't tell me it doesn't exist.
The insipidness of it concerns me almost as much as the vehement denial that it amounts to a giveback, however small it may be.
.....And I do like the fact that most of my trips are worth more now.
To me, it's probably worth the giveback. Just don't tell me it doesn't exist.
Q: "Do you know what the best descent speed is for arrival as of Jan 1st?"
Student's A: 290 kts?
Instructor: Nope. Bottom foot plus 5...
12-10-2007, 08:12 AM
#35
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Originally Posted by BrownGirls YUM
.... It isn't big. It's very small.
The insipidness of it concerns me almost as much as the vehement denial that it amounts to a giveback, however small it may be.....
The insipidness of it concerns me almost as much as the vehement denial that it amounts to a giveback, however small it may be.....
...and precisely why we need to always ask for specifics, more details, and better communication from our NC.
Hopefully, the smartest guys are negogiating the contracts for us...but we absolutely have a right to expect they communicate the full affects of any changes.
A'o Aloha,
12-10-2007, 08:14 AM
#36
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Originally Posted by BrownGirls YUM
All good points, and admittedly, I've been looking more at my bidpack than system-wide. But I'm not saying you are getting "ripped off" when you can't knock out a 7-hr hard time trip with 6 hours of vacation. I've merely identified that there has been some loss in what you can knock out on TAFB trips with vacation and sick leave. It isn't big. It's very small.
The insipidness of it concerns me almost as much as the vehement denial that it amounts to a giveback, however small it may be.
.....And I do like the fact that most of my trips are worth more now.
To me, it's probably worth the giveback. Just don't tell me it doesn't exist.
The insipidness of it concerns me almost as much as the vehement denial that it amounts to a giveback, however small it may be.
.....And I do like the fact that most of my trips are worth more now.
To me, it's probably worth the giveback. Just don't tell me it doesn't exist.
I have to ask you though. If we went to a 1 for 2 trip rig. And, got 12 hrs of pay/day for a TAFB trip. But, kept our CBA's Vacation section as is...Would that be a giveback?
Wouldn't increasing the value(?) of a vacation day to match our trip rig, 6.4hrs, constitute an increase in vacation for every other pilot and line that isn't based on TAFB? I can just hear the whining now....All those senior jerks flying their 6hr/day, out and backs and hubturns got extra vacation, and I didn't.
Last edited by Busboy; 12-10-2007 at 08:31 AM.
12-10-2007, 09:17 AM
#37
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Originally Posted by MaxKts
Look at it another way -
You had 7 days or 42 hours of vacation. Old rules a weeklong pairing paid 42 hours, under new rules that same 7 days pays 44.8 hours. So for the same 7 days off it cost you 2.8 hours more.
You had 7 days or 42 hours of vacation. Old rules a weeklong pairing paid 42 hours, under new rules that same 7 days pays 44.8 hours. So for the same 7 days off it cost you 2.8 hours more.
Under the old rig, for a 75 hour line, you would of had your original trip in the example above at 7 days and 42 hours pay. Your next trip would have been 5.5 days long and 33 hours. That gives you 12.5 days worked and 15 days off. You end up with 22 days off for the month at a price of 42 hours of vacation time. In order to get 23 days off like in the first example you would need to use 6 additional hours of vacation time for a total cost of 48 hours.
I myself will take the first example every time. Sure there are a thousand other variables but in my examples above I kept the BLG constant at 75 hours to show how the vacation usage works under the old and new trip rigs.
What would your solution be? Add more hours to the vacation pot? Each hour added would be a pay raise.
12-10-2007, 09:37 AM
#38
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Originally Posted by Pecan
What about those "less than senior" folks who sit reserve? Does the new trip rig help them what-so-ever?? Looking at the RLG--I don't think so.
I was a big proponent of getting a better trip rig to increase days off, not increase our pay. That should be done with hourly rates, IMO.
Of course, it appears the Subic guys need to rag on their SIG rep, and see if they can make that happen. Rather, than just increase their BLG's. If that's what they really want.
12-10-2007, 10:15 AM
#39
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Originally Posted by machz990
You are using fuzzy math and not making a valid comparison. You say the 7 day trip now pays 44.8 hours. OK what should the rest of the line look like? If it's a 75 hour line your next trip would be approx. 30.2 hours. That works out to 4.7 more days of work on that line. So you are working 11.7 days that month if your BLG stays at 75 hours. That gives you 16 days off. Now knock out the 7 day trip at 44.8 hours. You end up with 23 days off for the month at a price of 44.8 hours of vacation time.
Under the old rig, for a 75 hour line, you would of had your original trip in the example above at 7 days and 42 hours pay. Your next trip would have been 5.5 days long and 33 hours. That gives you 12.5 days worked and 15 days off. You end up with 22 days off for the month at a price of 42 hours of vacation time. In order to get 23 days off like in the first example you would need to use 6 additional hours of vacation time for a total cost of 48 hours.
I myself will take the first example every time. Sure there are a thousand other variables but in my examples above I kept the BLG constant at 75 hours to show how the vacation usage works under the old and new trip rigs.
What would your solution be? Add more hours to the vacation pot? Each hour added would be a pay raise.
Under the old rig, for a 75 hour line, you would of had your original trip in the example above at 7 days and 42 hours pay. Your next trip would have been 5.5 days long and 33 hours. That gives you 12.5 days worked and 15 days off. You end up with 22 days off for the month at a price of 42 hours of vacation time. In order to get 23 days off like in the first example you would need to use 6 additional hours of vacation time for a total cost of 48 hours.
I myself will take the first example every time. Sure there are a thousand other variables but in my examples above I kept the BLG constant at 75 hours to show how the vacation usage works under the old and new trip rigs.
What would your solution be? Add more hours to the vacation pot? Each hour added would be a pay raise.
12-10-2007, 03:50 PM
#40
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Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 478
Originally Posted by Busboy
I have to ask you though. If we went to a 1 for 2 trip rig. And, got 12 hrs of pay/day for a TAFB trip. But, kept our CBA's Vacation section as is...Would that be a giveback?
doubling your pay. Pick your ratio--realistic or not, it's still a tradeoff.
Wouldn't increasing the value(?) of a vacation day to match our trip rig, 6.4hrs, constitute an increase in vacation for every other pilot and line that isn't based on TAFB? I can just hear the whining now....All those senior jerks flying their 6hr/day, out and backs and hubturns got extra vacation, and I didn't.
But consider not necessarily a raising of vacation value, but perhaps a vacation "trip buyout" rate at an other-than-pay value for TAFB trips to mitigate the time off buying power lost in the rig change.
Either way, we should be always striving for gains without givebacks. Realistic? No. But when the givebacks exist, we don't serve ourselves well be saying they aren't there, regardless of how small they might be or how few people they affect.
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