777
 

I personally think the company should have posted for 777 crews on this excess. That way they would know what other seats will be driving the exodus to the 777 and consequently if they are going to need to excess further.

They could have just posted training dates of a year or a year and half from now.

IMHO

DC10 SOs can choose 727 SO in this bid. The contract allows it.

guys who reach the mandatory age have contractually been able to move from CA or FO to SO without any bid at all for some time.

The contract says an excess bid may be increased in size if bubbas move into one of the excessed seats during the shuffle.

My question is--

If a bunch of excessed folks choose Airbus FO in this particular bid, can there be an excess in that seat added to the mix as a result of it?

Also, I think the company is planning on many DC10 SOs moving to 727 SO. That is why there is an excess bid for 727 SO. The company is hoping some of the more senior under 65 crowd will move up and out of the 727 SO seat

They will just add more excess positions, sort of a "Secondary Excess." See Section 26.C.6.c.

c. If an excessed pilot is awarded or assigned a crew position that is also in excess, the number of pilots to be excessed from that crew position may be increased accordingly; provided, however, no pilot may be awarded or assigned a crew position at an FDA base that would cause an excess at that base.

So if say, 10 very junior DC10 SOs can only hold the FO seat on the 727, then the Company effectively will end up excessing 60 727 FOs.

I also agree with Gunter on the over 65 types. Even with the excess, there will be about 215 727 SOs. Plenty of room for the over 65 types and others who can't hold an appropriate medical. In the future, the newhire position will be 757 or 727 FO (I'm betting there are still some Jurassic Jets around in 10 years.)

[QUOTE=Gunter;364884]I agree, but my point is that those that have been sitting in the DC10 seat for awhile and find themselves to be of an age that allows them to take a retirement, without penalty (60 or older) will probably opt to retire faced with this excess vs re-training in the 72. (Tougher job, no reclining or electric seat and more than one leg per night.)

Really??Tell me what section of the contract says that a pilot who no longer qualifies due to age is contractually allowed to bid to an Engineer seat with an absence of a Vacancy Posting in that position...I'll save you the time, its Not there! This "practice" has been allowed as I said because a precedence was set a long time ago.



It probably could generate a separate Bid following this one if the Company felt the need to re-align. But ask yourself why is the Company doing this? Trying to save money and reduce cost. So if you get a little fat in some lower paying seats and some others choose to retire vs retrain then mission accomplished! You can only push out after excessing. Hopefully that wont be the case.

41 CDG CA and 28 CDG FO awards were just canceled.

Do these guys and gals want still want to move, or will they stay where they are at?


What I see for FOs and SOs --

DC-10 SOs going down to 727 SO. Perhaps a high number like 40-54. I bet they move with their schedules getting so bad.

Tons of DC-10 FO's going to MD11 or Airbus. I bet not many lower seniority DC10 SO's will get a chance to move. They will get trumped by the older volunteer excess folks. I don't know if the Airbus can handle all the bodies but the MD could make use of quite a few. Can we have a follow on excess bid out of the wide FO seats?

A significant numer of 727 FOs may go to Airbus or MD. They know it will be their last chance for awhile. But I may underestimate their dedication to the Boeing QOL. This will interesting.

I didn't think the company would do a 727 SO excess. But looking at things long term it is smart because it will help plus up all the FO seats closer to the level that the 727 SO seat is plussed up. This makes the most sense to me.

I wish I knew if any 727 FOs will be excess down to the 727 SO seat. It depends on how much of a bubble the company wants in the SO seat. Does the company want any bubbles or do they want even manning?

Wouldnt the Company want to get as many of the junior 72 FOs back to SO to reduce passover pay?

Try Section 24.E.6. smart guy.

I have found that a little research before shooting off my mouth is a necessity around here.

23 A 2c

Either way....you're quite the tool.

If the excess bid included Airbus FO and MD 11 FO I would say yes. Then we would see guys getting excessed down to 727 FO while guys moved up and the net result would be the most junior getting bumped off the bottom to 727 SO.

But MD11 FO and Airbus FO seats are not getting excessed. Looks like senior 727 FOs, DC10 FOs, and maybe even junior DC10 SO's will be packing those seats with bodies.

I predict much fewer than 50 727 FOs get bumped off the bottom.

Sorry you have the beak about that. Kinda like losing your medical. It's not standard for us to downgrade, only upgrade. It's been a great boon for our newhires for many years so they can jump over these guys on the way to FO.

As unhappy as I am about retro, I still think it's right to flow into the back at any time. For you to want to remove that privilege because the contract doesn't have firm language is just plain mean. Kinda like how the non-members think we ought furlough so they can get a higher BLG and carryover on their schedules.