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Old 02-23-2010, 11:45 AM   #1  
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Default UPS Managers/labor law

Any insight into labor/ union law:

If ups furloughs and uses non-union pilots to fly our line flights. Is this a violation of the law. Aren't they replacing union workers w/ non?

Thoughts?

N_H
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Old 02-23-2010, 12:51 PM   #2  
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Agreed. Don't see how you could possibly justify the "E" in MEF if the emergency is created by the company in laying off line pilots. I think this is actually a very good case to bring to a labor attorney.
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Old 02-23-2010, 01:01 PM   #3  
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I think it's more a matter of what your contract says. Usually found under "scope" (all flying that is performed by the Company....shall be performed by crewmembers on the ... seniority list) and "management." The management section usually says how a line pilot will be made whole if a management pilot displaces him.
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Old 02-23-2010, 01:12 PM   #4  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Night_Hawk View Post
Any insight into labor/ union law:

If ups furloughs and uses non-union pilots to fly our line flights. Is this a violation of the law. Aren't they replacing union workers w/ non?

Thoughts?

N_H
well that's the million dollar question isn't it? and one that will be decided very soon as soon as one union pilot hits the street and is illegally replaced.

my opinion is that it is in complete violation of federal labor law and will be very interested to see how ups justifies throwing hundreds of union pilots on the street just to replace them with non union pilots.
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Old 02-23-2010, 02:24 PM   #5  
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well that's the million dollar question isn't it? and one that will be decided very soon as soon as one union pilot hits the street and is illegally replaced.

my opinion is that it is in complete violation of federal labor law and will be very interested to see how ups justifies throwing hundreds of union pilots on the street just to replace them with non union pilots.
Come on weatherman, I thought with the whole condiment, peanut butter and jelly thing, this is all whipsawing for "Happier times" in Shenzen
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Old 02-23-2010, 02:25 PM   #6  
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Originally Posted by Twin Wasp View Post
I think it's more a matter of what your contract says. Usually found under "scope" (all flying that is performed by the Company....shall be performed by crewmembers on the ... seniority list) and "management." The management section usually says how a line pilot will be made whole if a management pilot displaces him.
Actually it is a matter of federal law. What our contract says really doesn't mean squat. You can enter into an agreement but that doesn't mean it is lawful. Look up what a "closed shop" means. I think that is going to be the crux of the issue. In all honesty a furlough, while make it sound more a sound case, really doesn't mean squat.

My hunch is this won't matter and I don't mean they won't furlough.
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Old 02-23-2010, 02:53 PM   #7  
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Originally Posted by Twin Wasp View Post
I think it's more a matter of what your contract says. Usually found under "scope" (all flying that is performed by the Company....shall be performed by crewmembers on the ... seniority list) and "management." The management section usually says how a line pilot will be made whole if a management pilot displaces him.
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Actually it is a matter of federal law. What our contract says really doesn't mean squat. You can enter into an agreement but that doesn't mean it is lawful. Look up what a "closed shop" means. I think that is going to be the crux of the issue. In all honesty a furlough, while make it sound more a sound case, really doesn't mean squat.

My hunch is this won't matter and I don't mean they won't furlough.
Actually, Twin Wasp is right on. If your bargaining agent (IPA) negotiated a contract that allowed management pilots to fly your routes, you would be hard pressed to find any arbitrator or federal judge to overturn it.

If you look up "closed shop" you will see that Taft-Hartley made them illegal. What you have is an agreement between the company and the union on how and who to hire and fire.

You are right though in that the court will not enforce an agreement that is illegal. But, in aviation cases, that is more likely to deal with an attempted subversion of the FAR's or some other federal regulation. There is no federal law that says union (IPA) pilots have to fly UPS airplanes.

Your contract means everything in the court of law. If there is part of it that is illegal, I doubt it's the part that allows management pilots to fly. Good luck though.

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Old 02-23-2010, 03:22 PM   #8  
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Originally Posted by Night_Hawk View Post
Any insight into labor/ union law:

If ups furloughs and uses non-union pilots to fly our line flights. Is this a violation of the law. Aren't they replacing union workers w/ non?

Thoughts?

N_H
Question. Do your management pilots hold a seniority number? At FedEx ALL management "pilots" hold a # and many them belong to ALPA.
Are your managers just strike busters or do they work for a living?
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Old 02-23-2010, 03:31 PM   #9  
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Question. Do your management pilots hold a seniority number? At FedEx ALL management "pilots" hold a # and many them belong to ALPA.
Are your managers just strike busters or do they work for a living?
They are listed by UPS as "pilots" but are not on the IPA seniority list, nor are they members of the IPA. We have some that were hired as managers when they interviewed, and others that "left" the IPA for a management position, thus relinquishing their IPA membership and seniority number. Thus the "airline within an airline" you here us refer to often.

I am sure there is someone out there that could explain it better, but that's what I know (which isn't much)
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Old 02-23-2010, 04:14 PM   #10  
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What language forces them to leave the IPA when taking a management job? IPA or UPS requirement that managers not be on the seniority list?
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