UPS Flight 6 Memorial
09-03-2010, 04:57 PM
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Retired
Posts: 3,717
My condolences to the friends and family of these two aviators, and to the crew force of UPS. These events are always untimely and terrible, both for the deceased as well as the rest of us in this industry. God Speed.
JJ
JJ
09-03-2010, 04:59 PM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: -400 CAPT
Posts: 483
from another forum---
I had the misfortune of hearing the whole chain of events while we were going from Kuwait to Abu Dhabi. As time goes by and more information is gathered and released, the picture will become clearer. But the aircraft didn't crash on takeoff.
We were in Bahraini airspace when we heard the mayday of a "Fire on the 'Deck'" and an immediate descent to 10,000'. The captain requested vectors back to Dubai immediately. As the moments passed the whole cockpit filled with smoke and the CA indicated he could not see any instruments at all. With no visual reference and all instruments unreadable as well as difficulty relaying messages and getting information (reentered UAE FIR but was still talking to BAH 'cause he couldn't change frequencies). Altitudes, headings etc had to be relayed from UAE to BAH to airborne aircraft to UPS and back again (A MESS to say the least). Wound up straight in for 12L at DXB at 10 miles and 7,000'. Couldn't circle because he couldn't see anything. Turned south of the airport -blind- the whole while altitudes are being read to him. It was of no use. The aircraft crashed into a fairly unpopulated area (thankful for that at least). Words can't express the whole situation adequately.
I had the misfortune of hearing the whole chain of events while we were going from Kuwait to Abu Dhabi. As time goes by and more information is gathered and released, the picture will become clearer. But the aircraft didn't crash on takeoff.
We were in Bahraini airspace when we heard the mayday of a "Fire on the 'Deck'" and an immediate descent to 10,000'. The captain requested vectors back to Dubai immediately. As the moments passed the whole cockpit filled with smoke and the CA indicated he could not see any instruments at all. With no visual reference and all instruments unreadable as well as difficulty relaying messages and getting information (reentered UAE FIR but was still talking to BAH 'cause he couldn't change frequencies). Altitudes, headings etc had to be relayed from UAE to BAH to airborne aircraft to UPS and back again (A MESS to say the least). Wound up straight in for 12L at DXB at 10 miles and 7,000'. Couldn't circle because he couldn't see anything. Turned south of the airport -blind- the whole while altitudes are being read to him. It was of no use. The aircraft crashed into a fairly unpopulated area (thankful for that at least). Words can't express the whole situation adequately.
09-03-2010, 05:01 PM
#65
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by Swedish Blender
God rest our brothers/sisters. Whomever it may be.
While no facts are known by any of us at this point, I have to say this since I just went through long term.
Training needs to change at UPS. We did the "cargo fire" dance and okay, everything is fine. I flew hazmat in a former life versus what UPS carries. I ask captains (at UPS), when we're over water, what they would do if we had a fire. 99/100 would say follow the checklist and stay high and hope the fire goes out.
While no facts are known by any of us at this point, I have to say this since I just went through long term.
Training needs to change at UPS. We did the "cargo fire" dance and okay, everything is fine. I flew hazmat in a former life versus what UPS carries. I ask captains (at UPS), when we're over water, what they would do if we had a fire. 99/100 would say follow the checklist and stay high and hope the fire goes out.
Mine was an electrical fire about 70 miles out over the water. I did just what I said above. 360 knots til 15 mile final, then speed brakes and gear. We were on the ground in 11 minutes. I don't remember calling for a single checklist. My FO said he did some of them.
Originally Posted by Swedish Blender
It is not the case here but still applies. During his training/checkride on the -400 at Evergreen, my friend said the fed started a stopwatch when he introduced the cargo fire and told them they have 20 minutes to land or they fail. Why 20 minutes? Historically, that is when the gig is up. I only say this because of what I read in one of the news reports
Like you, I don't know what happened here. But if their lost lives changes training of inflight fires, their deaths won't be in vain.
Carl
09-03-2010, 05:28 PM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,224
Frontseat,
I realize it is a bad time for many at UPS. While I don't work there, I've been furloughed and I believe I know what many of you are going through.
This thread is about a fatal accident and the loss of our fellow aviators. I think this isn't the time or place for anti-UPS rhetoric.
God bless the families of these two aviators....
I realize it is a bad time for many at UPS. While I don't work there, I've been furloughed and I believe I know what many of you are going through.
This thread is about a fatal accident and the loss of our fellow aviators. I think this isn't the time or place for anti-UPS rhetoric.
God bless the families of these two aviators....
09-03-2010, 05:29 PM
#67
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: On Food Stamps
Posts: 937
Folks,
Its too early for speculation, hatred, or ill will. There will be plenty of time for that later. Right now I am sick to my stomach at the loss of our brothers, I can't imagine what their families are going through right now.
Its too early for speculation, hatred, or ill will. There will be plenty of time for that later. Right now I am sick to my stomach at the loss of our brothers, I can't imagine what their families are going through right now.
09-03-2010, 05:46 PM
#68
APC co-founder
Joined APC: Feb 2005
Position: B777
Posts: 5,853
Originally Posted by golfandfly
Frontseat,
I realize it is a bad time for many at UPS. While I don't work there, I've been furloughed and I believe I know what many of you are going through.
This thread is about a fatal accident and the loss of our fellow aviators. I think this isn't the time or place for anti-UPS rhetoric.
God bless the families of these two aviators....
I realize it is a bad time for many at UPS. While I don't work there, I've been furloughed and I believe I know what many of you are going through.
This thread is about a fatal accident and the loss of our fellow aviators. I think this isn't the time or place for anti-UPS rhetoric.
God bless the families of these two aviators....
Originally Posted by Shaggy1970
Folks,
Its too early for speculation, hatred, or ill will. There will be plenty of time for that later. Right now I am sick to my stomach at the loss of our brothers, I can't imagine what their families are going through right now.
Its too early for speculation, hatred, or ill will. There will be plenty of time for that later. Right now I am sick to my stomach at the loss of our brothers, I can't imagine what their families are going through right now.
Our thoughts and prayers go out to the UPS family and those affected and involved with UPS 6. The flamebait post has been removed and the sentiment will only continue if it's acknowledged. Please take the lead of the two posters above and ignore it.
No amount of speculation or accusation will change the fact that we've lost two fellow aviators today. I know we all want details, but we know investigations take time. Be patient, the details will unfold and give us the information we need to prevent a re-occurrence. In the meantime, be careful out there.
Go take a walk, breathe the air, hug your loved ones, and reflect on the things that are truly important in memory of two guys who won't be with us tomorrow.
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