[QUOTE=av8rmike;61152]So you are saying that under the TA you don't get BLG for your PAY Only Line?.........

 

[QUOTE=RedeyeAV8r;61229]Sorry, I seem to be not explaining this very well. You get the pay for whatever line you could hold. Regardless of the number of days that line really works, as a flex you will work 15 or 19. Under the current contract, if you do offsite training, you will end up working less days because they calculate your total days owed the same way they calculate reserve leveling. Each day offsite counts for 6 hrs toward "leveling".

This seems reasonable since it's the same credit hour per day that everyone else uses. Under the TA, offsite training now counts the same as R day value. Means that unlike everyone else, now for Flexes 24 hr TAFB = 4.x hrs toward monthly leveling. An equivalent would be a reserve guy being assigned 15 days of trips. Wouldn't happen because that would put his leveling at 90 hours...

Does that make any more sense?

 

OK ... seems we've kicked this dead horse to death. How about if RedEye and Mike drop back and continue their personal p***ing contest via PM. Thanks guys

Mark

 

Sorry Mark this Post is Titled the TA and the FLEX.

Aren't we sticking to the subject of the POST. Don't want to hear any more about section 11 and FLEX stuff.........don't read this thread.

And I don't think AV8r Mike and myself are pinging each other. I though we were having a civil debate. Mike?? if you thought Different, I appologize.

 

I assume you meant Section 11.N.14 of the current contract (there is no 11.M.14, and 11.N.14 deals with flying in lieu of scheduled training events). Taken in conjunction with 11.N.7, a Flex Instructor will fly the Line one month, Flex to training the next with 1 FLY day, and Flex to training the next with 2 FLY days. The fourth month, he'll fly the line again.

Care to guess how many times I flew the line one month as a Flex? In reality, the "if it is necessary to flex an instructor to training more than 2 consecutive months" clause of 11.N.7 was used EVERY month. On rare occassions, a Flex was allowed to fly the line in a vacation month - - that's all. The 1 FLY day in the first month followed by 2 FLY days in the second month NEVER came into play, because we were always on the 8th or 12th or 35th month of consecutive flex to training.


These two paragraphs are now essentially combined in the TA's paragraph 11.M.7., and you're right, the FLY days from months 1 and 2 of training are gone. In reality, though, as I have just explained, this will net very little change. The accepted practice of "pooling" FLY days is codified, and unless Flexes actually fly the line, the number of FLY days per month remains unchanged.

Unless the manning issue changes to allow Flexes to fly the line every third month, there will be no loss of FLY days.




We've already discussed 11.M.9.d., and I think I've made my position clear. It is a concession. I believe it is a small concession, and one that will affect only a small number of pilots. Apart from the size or the audience, I believe it is fair.

A reserve pilot credits the value of a trip flown towards leveling, and he is paid Reserve Line Guarantee - - typically less than the Bid Line Guarantee that a Flex Instructor will be paid. A Flex Instructor will work the 15/19 days and earn BLG. The golden deal for Flexes here is the ability to go to Miami, get paid for every day away from Memphis, and work fewer days than the Flex in Memphis because of 11.M.9.d. Without it, he'll still get paid for days he does nothing in Miami, and he'll still get paid BLG, he'll just have to work as many days as the Flex working in the schoolhouse in Memphis.

I see that as giving back very little. Lost a good deal? Yes. Fair? Yes.


Well, yeah, I guess they really showed THEM, huh? I guess these were the same guys that were demanding that they get their FLY months every quarter? Same guys that were saying NO to Draft days on their printed schedules? Same guys that were demanding that the Training Department be manned at a level to allow the Contract to be administered like it was written, without the "unless the Company needs you to work" caveats?


Like I said, getting up and quitting over something that isn't even a Contract yet is just childish. There was plenty to stand up for before. This issue doesn't even come close.

Did they turn in their ALPA pins, too?



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And the Reserve guy will not be paid BID Line Guarantee, either.


.

 

Why don't you tell everyone about the INVIOLATE 5 days off per month (in no more than 2 blocks) and the ability to work carryover in this month or next, your choice?

I found the Flex schedule to be VERY agreeable, and believe that most Flexes have better control over their schedules than line pilots. There is no question that the more junior Flexes have FAR more control over their schedule as Instructors than as line pilots.


This complaint erodes your credibility.




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You speak out of both sides of your face, White Man. First, you agree with the assertion Flexes are disauded from going to the line for months (8 I believe you said), while at the same time you said that losing 3 fly days on the schedule in a quarter won't have any impact? Only if you stay around thee school house for more than three months without going to the line. There might be a few who do this, but not a lot where I am. What it is and what it was are apparently different. Imagine that!

Also, your argument about the choice Miami deal being better than the same Flex stuck in Mempho. Hey, your LAX hotel STBY is waaay better than my Mempho A reserve, so you should work 15 days, too... What a bunch of baloney (or bologna if you prefer).

Your continued contention that the actions of those who quit was 'childish' is so far off base as to require a reply. Nice job trying to put words into these peoples mouths and denegrate their decisions with such ridiculous insinuations as they were whining, pouty, draft whors. Actually, they were among those who had the MOST credibility based on their flying experience. They simply didn't feel that a concessionary (for Flexes) Section 11 and the insulting follow-on briefings from MGT indicated any respect or value for their extra effort. No "We really showed them" was intended, however you view it... They just made a personal decision based on how they felt their contributions were valued. I'll pass on to everyone else to check with you prior to quitting to make sure their PERSONAL decisions pass your muster.

Oh, I almost forgot. "Did they turn in their ALPA pins, too?" Ha ha ha ha ha ahaaaaa.... You really have that sharp James Carville propaganda machine turned on 'High', don't you? I, too, see Section 11 for what it is and am unhappy about the fact that we decided ANY concessions from the previous contract were acceptable. Doesn't make me an anti-Unionist. As a matter of fact, I've served on several Union committees and have done more than my fair share. Nice job trying to paint with the broadest of brushes.

It kills me you feel my credibility is eroded because I see it differently than you... I guess I'd better go kill myself now. Or would that be too childish?

 

I'm with you. You've been nothing but civil and have asked some worthy questions. I've enjoyed it. I didn't realize they changed the name of the post in midstream on us... Maybe we had better go find the one that says something about Flexes and the TA?

 

Agreed.........