Tuck

Did you contact Contract Enforcement? It's my understanding there was a similar situation settled to the pilot's favor rather summarily - company lawyers agreed and everything.

Some guy

Good stuff. Knew I could count on the corporate knowledge of this forum...Thanks, SG

msduckslyr

My answer is booking business does not impact duty status. Staging impacts duty status in 26J, and business does not.

V1VR

Legal or not, it's still not the smartest thing to do. I had a jumpseater on my LAX to MEM evening flight and he stayed up the whole time, then hub turned to an AM out and back. He was dog meat at 11am and was certainly in no shape to fly.

We're fighting constantly to introduce and keep rational flight and duty time limits. ALPA has used a lot of political capital on just this issue. Then someone wants to hub turn into this? If scheduling tried to hand this trip to us,we'd scream unsafe! To me it's just poor judgement, and it's throwing a lot on the other crewmember. Yeah, it's legal by the contract for now, but the Colgan wreck will change that soon.

HDawg

What about the guy living in Crackerville who is up all day and does the same thing? No one on a soap box about that.

V1VR

And what guy was that, if you mean Collierville? That would be just as foolish, but you can't just come up with a hypothetical and play smug. Do you believe that crew scheduling should be able to schedule us from any trip, west coast included, into an AM hub turn? I notice you didn't dismiss my argument, so what's your point?

kronan

Since you know he was dog meat at 11am, have to wonder why you chose to J/S on that AM out and back? Or are you just projecting your performance on that particular pilot.

The only thing we all have in common is that we are all unique. Different people need different amounts of rest. Some people have adjusted their life's to being a night owl, while others are the early birds always up at 4 or 5 am.

I can very easily surmise that a particular individuals normal 16-18 hour day overlaps that evening J/S and AM out and back.

While jumping in for an AM out and back wouldn't work for me, I do know folks who do just that. One Capt I know has been doing so for an extended period of time and just manages his life to accomodate his work schedule....with no discernable fatigue impacts so far as I can determine.

Our contract does allow for CRS or the DO to remove folks for "projected" FAR impacts (See Sub section). So, if the company wants to remove me because the sort is projected to be wicked late, no heart burn from me. Just drop me into SUB and pay protect me. Removing me without pay because "O" would be too fatigued to operate under similar circumstances, big problem

kronan

YES, scheduling should be able to schedule us into any trip to fits within contractual parameters.

I don't think the company would take the risk of losing the return flight, but, they could. There is more than one line in the bid pack that hub turns from the west coast to around a 1230Z landing. Certainly some of the closer O\B cities would fit into the duty day.

Wouldn't happen though, since the typical O\B folks are the ones most vocal about line construction, and I think the company wisely opts for line purity in O\Bs much more than the typical layover line

HDawg

Yes CRS can schedule to any trip as long as it meets the contract or FARs during an Op Emergency happens all the time. My point is if it is legal and he and his crew determined they were fit for duty who cares what someone else thinks.

V1VR

That's the excuse these morons use to fly disputed pairings.