Aribusdude

Although I am very upset at the FAA wording and basic write-off of cargo pilot's in the new rules, let's hold the phone. It occurres to me the devil is in the details. Before we go off half loaded, consider that if we do participate in the new rules we may make this job uncommutable. Can you say....move to MEM!!! I have not read the rules...isn't there 300 odd pages? I'll let the scheduling SIG guys tear it up. I think we can do better by staying out and negotiating with the Company. I suspect our current contract meets much of the new rules. I have no desire to be limited to 3 hub turns if that is in the new rules. I'm just feeling good at the 3rd night. No thanks to working 3 on 3 off etc. Wish we still had the week on/week off 6 day trips. Hate working the 3rd week penalty trip. Let's get all the facts from the document before we slit our own throats.

trigg41

What about the guys that live in Memphis. I would like the 3 on 3 off deal. That week of hub turns is nuts!

frozenboxhauler

All good points.
fbh

MaxKts

I've read most of it (granted at a very fast pace and did not get all the details). This is what I can tell you - with the exception of the extension to 16 hours during an "Operational Emergency" the new rules look a lot like our current contract! And, the 3 on 3 off is not a player if you have the opportunity to get 2 hours rest between duty periods - so it would not change our week of hub turning.


Standard disclaimer - I am not a lawyer or expert on interpreting the FAR's but I have slept at a Holiday Inn before

SeeDub

I agree with Airbusdude. The cutout may be a blessing in disguise.

CloudSailor

I also agree airbusdude, although I have not read Part 117 in its entirety. One big thing I did catch, if I am right, is that transportation to/from hotel will count as duty time. That will affect layover hotels in a big way. I personally enjoy downtown/scenic layovers. Staying in a nice area that can be explored is a huge benefit. Staying right by the airport with the standard chain restaurants, not so great, IMO.
I agree that from the FedEx perspective our CBA already covers many safety issues from Part 117, although obviously not all. Hopefully we an use this as a negotiating platform a Albie pointed out so well in that other thread.
For those of you who live in Memphis, I'm sorry .

4A2B

local ground transportation is not "duty" like today, but if the ground times are excessive and you had a min layover it could result in being "counted" as to not get you your 8 hours.

At our company, we have a minimum 10:15 domestic layover already and 12-14 international so this should not cause much problem except for some exceptionally short international layovers in which case the beenfit of being downtown, even today, is not a big deal to me in those cases.

from the regs explanation:

Carriers will be required to provide their crew with a 10-hour rest opportunity prior to commencing a duty period that includes flying. While the 10-rest period may include the amount of time it takes to get to or from a flightcrew member’s house or hotel room, the actual amount of time required for a sleep opportunity may not be reduced below 8 hours

lots more reading required by our scheduling pros before we do anything stupid,in the end though one level of safety should be one level of safety ! no carrier should get a pass or be able to hold a decision like this out as bargaining fodder. Science based rules, that were largely based on comments from cargo pilots and those that need the nighttime protections is criminal that we are even having this discussion.

I for one am taking it to my congressman and we all need to be doing that and fight this in the public eye. IMHO.

The Walrus

You may want to check our contract.

1. A domestic rest period shall be scheduled for not less than 9 hours (8 hours when the following duty period consists entirely of deadhead to base), and shall operationally be not less than 8 hours.

Purpltail

What are you "sorry" about, Cloud?

4A2B

this is what mine says

3. Domestic Crew Planning Limitations
Crew Planning limitations shall apply until 48 hours prior to showtime of a trip or series of trips, except that such limitations do not apply to a sequence of trips that includes an optional assignment (e.g., make-up, trip trade, volunteer or draft). Trips constructed and revisions that occur after that time shall be governed by Section 12.C.4. through C.6., as applicable.
a. Layover Minimum
A layover preceding duty as an operating pilot shall be scheduled for at least 10:15 hours. A layover preceding deadhead duty may be scheduled to a minimum of 8 hours.

you are probably quoting the operational rules, not pre planning or bid packs.