I don't see why not

 

If you interpret the contract the way you seem to be doing here, you'd also be in violation of the CBA if you jumpseated in the day before and got a full legal rest period in domicile..

 

Yes you are missing something. When you are off duty the company has no claim on your time. And how to get to work is your choice not the company's.

"26.J.2.e The provisions of Section 26.J.2. are predicated upon the premise that time spent on a pilot scheduled Company jumpseat is not accrued duty time under this contract or the FARs. Should the Company be required to consider time spent on a pilot scheduled Company jumpseat as accrued duty time, Section 26.J.2., shall become null and void immediately"


Paragraph 26.J is simply an attempt by ALPA to ensure guys get a reasonable chance of making up pay if they miss a trip due to no fault of their own. The company in tern is trying to make sure guys don't jumpseat in at showtime. It has nothing to do with what is legal. If we had our way all of our trips would be protected from punishment if we don't show up. If the company had their way none of them would be protected. This is a compromise.

 

I'm not sure if we are protected by 26.J.2 for any purpose. Seems like it has been declared null and void immediately

 

I guess I just don't get it. I'll go back and finish my shuffleboard game.

MG2

 

To be able to use Staging, and be protected from discipline for missing a trip while jumpseating in, there is a look back as to the showtime of the jumpseat. If you end up late and miss a trip, the company will look back and see if you meet the time equivalent of a legal duty period (The rule of thumb that I've used is, if I could operate it in and hubturn to my next trip, then I'd be okay). If you don't use Staging, and use Personal or Business to commute to work, then it doesn't apply, but if you miss a trip, you could be in jeopardy for discipline and loss of pay for that trip(s). There have been flight managers and ACPs in the past that have pretty much endorsed using B class to jumpseat, and folks would still be okay if a FedEx flight was late, though I know of no one that has tested this (by missing a trip). In any case, if you miss a trip other than using S class, or used S class but didn't meet the "artificial" duty requirement, or are scheduled to arrive less that 1+30 prior to your trip, you are not contractually protected from discipline/loss of pay. As long as you don't miss a trip, it shouldn't matter what jumpseat priority you use, but, obviously, the 777 FC interprets that differently.

I have missed one trip while using Staging class in 14 yrs, hung out for 3 days trying to do MU. No one called/emailed and asked about it. It was handled all through CRS. You do need to, if possible, keep CRS updated, but I know plenty of folks that have been okay after getting to MEM late without a single call to CRS.

In summation, to be able to use S, you need the 13+30 (jump seat flight + plus your trip), 1+30 between jumpseat block in and your trip showtime, and you need to keep CRS up to date, if necessary. P and B have no such requirements, but you are on your own if you miss a trip.

 

Well said. In conclusion Section 26 of the contract covers General Information. Paragraph 26.J only concerns staging. If they wanted it to concern legality they would have put it in Section 25 Scheduling or Section 12 Hours of Service. It has absolutely nothing to do with legality for trips or fleet commanders removing pilots from trips for arbitrary undefined reasons. Any subparagraph to 26.J can only further define staging.

 

Let's say you are jumpseating in to sit reserves. Your jumpseat arrives before the reserve period. I'm guessing there is no staging protection because reserves is not a trip, for that matter, an airport standby assignment is not a "trip" either?

Also, if you get assigned a long haul flight after you start reserves, could you be yanked from the trip because the look back from the showtime of the jumpseat you took to sit reserves gives the "Space Cadet Commander" the impression you are not rested for duty?

 

That would be my interpretation, but it would depend on the number of days of reserve, too. So, if I had 1 day, possible, then what's the worst they can assign me duty time wise - an out and back? Well, then how early is my jumpseat show time?

They way I've always handled R days was to go first fly on at least the first day. If I get assigned a trip, then I jumpseat in using S (unless international), if I don't, I go to the airport and catch pax jumpseat to MEM, or use bank if I happen to have some.

If you don't miss a trip, you shouldn't have anything to worry about, as far as I understand it, but as we've recently seen, the 777 FC sees differently. It really should only come in to play if you actually miss a trip. Would be interesting to learn the fates of those two 777 FOs.

In practice, I, personally, don't jumpseat into international flights (GDL, TLC, YYZ, et al excluded) or Reserve. I know of a few folks that have jumpseated into reserve, and then arrived shortly after midnight. Guess who called at midnight with a trip assignment. That will get marked as an irregularity at a minimum, and most likely get you a letter.

 

Good explanation that even I can understand. Thank you.

MG2