Panel Splits on Raising Airline Pilot Retirement Age
06-01-2017, 04:22 AM
#31
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: 7th green
Posts: 4,378
Anyone with ANY experience in the airline business knows there is no such thing as "career expectations". Ask any Pan Am, Wien, Eastern, TWA, Capitol, Braniff, Midwest Express, Midway, etc. ad infinitium pilot what happened to their "career expectations".
Nothing is promised in piloting and wise pilots are prepared for the ups and downs of the career.
Nothing is promised in piloting and wise pilots are prepared for the ups and downs of the career.
06-01-2017, 06:11 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 767 Captain
Posts: 3,988
Originally Posted by Ludicrous Speed
If the age is raised again, it should not result in furloughs or delayed career expectations.
Putting aside long term company financial health, expansion, mergers, etc., the most important factor in one’s career is retirements. To actually state that raising the age won’t affect career expectations shows a complete lack of understanding of the situation. The main reason the majors have been hiring like crazy for the last few years is the 5 year extension the old guys got ran out in 2014 and regular retirements began again. Additionally, raising the age might not result in furloughs now but should they come, there will be pilots on the street who would not otherwise be there because the seniors stayed and less were hired prior to the furlough.
Originally Posted by Ludicrous Speed
Sure, before either happens, there will be some room to play with due to demand.
Guess where the “demand” comes from that will supposedly allow some “room to play with”? Yup – the retirements you seem to think have no effect on anyone’s career.
Originally Posted by Ludicrous Speed
Sure, hiring phases and the economy will have cycled a few times and in that time, or hell, we might even go to single or no pilot ops, but so what.
Originally Posted by Ludicrous Speed
Of course this will not be popular with those nearing retirement (most of us know we what we got into and we already got a 5 year extension) or with the airlines (raise the damn pay and bennies).
“Raise the damn pay and bennies”? Another WTF statement. One of the reasons major airlines have any incentive to raise the pay/benefits is to remain competitive during periods of hiring. You think this incentive remains when an age change gives them additional pilots they weren’t planning on having available? Does the pilot group have more or less leverage during negotiations if there are an abundance of pilots on the property? Do you think it’s a coincidence that every major airline has raised pay and been hiring since the end of the 5 years from the first age change?
“5-year extension” might be how you see it, since it appears you weren’t here to live it. A lot of us didn’t want an “extension”. More like a stagnation. We didn’t want to wait an extra 5 years to hold better lines, better paying equipment, earn our high-5 for retirement, etc. Many of us didn’t (or still don’t) want to work until we’re 65. Fortunately some of us still have that choice. 20-30 years from now you might feel a bit differently about getting an “extension” to your career.
But we did and it’s done. I’m over it. But I have to speak up when it’s clear you are either attempting to revise history by downplaying this event (and possibly future changes to the age) or more likely have absolutely no clue what you’re trying to talk about.
06-01-2017, 07:27 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 400
Originally Posted by Adlerdriver
Putting aside long term company financial health, expansion, mergers, etc., the most important factor in one’s career is retirements. To actually state that raising the age won’t affect career expectations shows a complete lack of understanding of the situation. The main reason the majors have been hiring like crazy for the last few years is the 5 year extension the old guys got ran out in 2014 and regular retirements began again. Additionally, raising the age might not result in furloughs now but should they come, there will be pilots on the street who would not otherwise be there because the seniors stayed and less were hired prior to the furlough.
Sounds like you’ve got your finger on the pulse of the entire industry’s hiring/furlough plans. Guess where the “demand” comes from that will supposedly allow some “room to play with”? Yup – the retirements you seem to think have no effect on anyone’s career.
So what? I’m not real worried about single pilot ops much less no pilot ops, but “so what”? Really? Do you bother to actually think before you start the stream of consciousness? What even is your point here?
“Most of us”? Who is that? The pilots hired in the last decade who didn’t have to wait on seniority and upgrades because of the age change? Guess what junior, “Most of us” where already here by then and got in when the age was 60. Take a look at any major airline’s seniority list and you’ll see most pilots were hired before the age change. Looking at many who were hired after the age change, don’t you realize that a lot of them would have been there much sooner without the age change?
“Raise the damn pay and bennies”? Another WTF statement. One of the reasons major airlines have any incentive to raise the pay/benefits is to remain competitive during periods of hiring. You think this incentive remains when an age change gives them additional pilots they weren’t planning on having available? Does the pilot group have more or less leverage during negotiations if there are an abundance of pilots on the property? Do you think it’s a coincidence that every major airline has raised pay and been hiring since the end of the 5 years from the first age change?
“5-year extension” might be how you see it, since it appears you weren’t here to live it. A lot of us didn’t want an “extension”. More like a stagnation. We didn’t want to wait an extra 5 years to hold better lines, better paying equipment, earn our high-5 for retirement, etc. Many of us didn’t (or still don’t) want to work until we’re 65. Fortunately some of us still have that choice. 20-30 years from now you might feel a bit differently about getting an “extension” to your career.
But we did and it’s done. I’m over it. But I have to speak up when it’s clear you are either attempting to revise history by downplaying this event (and possibly future changes to the age) or more likely have absolutely no clue what you’re trying to talk about.
Sounds like you’ve got your finger on the pulse of the entire industry’s hiring/furlough plans.
Guess where the “demand” comes from that will supposedly allow some “room to play with”? Yup – the retirements you seem to think have no effect on anyone’s career.So what? I’m not real worried about single pilot ops much less no pilot ops, but “so what”? Really? Do you bother to actually think before you start the stream of consciousness? What even is your point here?
“Most of us”? Who is that? The pilots hired in the last decade who didn’t have to wait on seniority and upgrades because of the age change? Guess what junior, “Most of us” where already here by then and got in when the age was 60. Take a look at any major airline’s seniority list and you’ll see most pilots were hired before the age change. Looking at many who were hired after the age change, don’t you realize that a lot of them would have been there much sooner without the age change?
“Raise the damn pay and bennies”? Another WTF statement. One of the reasons major airlines have any incentive to raise the pay/benefits is to remain competitive during periods of hiring. You think this incentive remains when an age change gives them additional pilots they weren’t planning on having available? Does the pilot group have more or less leverage during negotiations if there are an abundance of pilots on the property? Do you think it’s a coincidence that every major airline has raised pay and been hiring since the end of the 5 years from the first age change?
“5-year extension” might be how you see it, since it appears you weren’t here to live it. A lot of us didn’t want an “extension”. More like a stagnation. We didn’t want to wait an extra 5 years to hold better lines, better paying equipment, earn our high-5 for retirement, etc. Many of us didn’t (or still don’t) want to work until we’re 65. Fortunately some of us still have that choice. 20-30 years from now you might feel a bit differently about getting an “extension” to your career.
But we did and it’s done. I’m over it. But I have to speak up when it’s clear you are either attempting to revise history by downplaying this event (and possibly future changes to the age) or more likely have absolutely no clue what you’re trying to talk about.
If the age is raised, it should be conditional in that it doesn't result in furloughs or delayed career expectations. Never mind the rest of the post that points to such. Better? Is context not your thing, Junior?
Before you reply, take a breath, think and don't pop a blood vessel.
Last edited by Ludicrous Speed; 06-01-2017 at 07:40 AM.
06-01-2017, 07:34 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 400
Originally Posted by Packrat
Anyone with ANY experience in the airline business knows there is no such thing as "career expectations". Ask any Pan Am, Wien, Eastern, TWA, Capitol, Braniff, Midwest Express, Midway, etc. ad infinitium pilot what happened to their "career expectations".
Nothing is promised in piloting and wise pilots are prepared for the ups and downs of the career.
Nothing is promised in piloting and wise pilots are prepared for the ups and downs of the career.
06-01-2017, 12:59 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,479
Originally Posted by Whaledrivr
Why would anyone want to continue working past 65. I've never heard anyone from their deathbed say "I wish I would've worked more".
06-01-2017, 08:05 PM
#39
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Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 5,912
Originally Posted by Whaledrivr
Why would anyone want to continue working past 65.
I've never heard anyone from their deathbed say "I wish I would've worked more".
I've never heard anyone from their deathbed say "I wish I would've worked more".
However, don't dispare, you'll get the left seat.... eventually
hopefully that is, before the DARPA robot that can land an airplane doesn't replace the younger generation.
06-02-2017, 06:29 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,479
Originally Posted by captjns
Your circle of contacts must be limited to the millennial crowd.
When I encounter millennials here and there , do I like what I see? Yes, for the most part, very much. Boomers, having qualified everything with; "play the game, don't believe in it." Who's at fault if they listened?
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