Atlas Crew Lands Dreamlifter Wrong Airport
#121
as long as humans will be humans, human error will continue. This is why I never understood the training mindset that a pilot should be able to dissect a fuel pump and discuss it on powerpoint. Who cares. It works or it does not. How do I handle the failure is the question. Or memorize the tail height of my airplane. When I decide to mail it, then I will learn it.
That is not what is killing pilots or getting pilots into trouble, even today, 2013. Basic 101 is. The same stuff that did it in 1950 is doing it today.
Stall/spin (typically on final)
VMC into IMC
CFIT
ATC error not double verified by Pilot
Pilot error/read-back not double verified by ATC
Fatigue induced stuff
IFR Approach not flown according to plate specs
Spatial Disorientation
Fuel exhaustion (not sure when this will ever be completed solved, we have Proline 21, G-1000, etc gee whiz technology, that can fly an entire holding pattern on auto pilot, but this has not been solved yet. This "concept" is not new, engines have needed fuel since the Model-T Ford was invented)
Lined up on wrong runway (takeoff or landing phase)
Landing fast/long
Bungled missed approach/go-around
CRM issues
operating a mechanically unairworthy/unsafe airplane when you should know better
penetrating severe weather/conditions when you probably had an alternate choice and should have known better
final category: All of the above
almost all incidents/accidents involving professional crews (corporate, military, airline) fall into the above categories. Well, probably ALL aviation accidents.
That is not what is killing pilots or getting pilots into trouble, even today, 2013. Basic 101 is. The same stuff that did it in 1950 is doing it today.
Stall/spin (typically on final)
VMC into IMC
CFIT
ATC error not double verified by Pilot
Pilot error/read-back not double verified by ATC
Fatigue induced stuff
IFR Approach not flown according to plate specs
Spatial Disorientation
Fuel exhaustion (not sure when this will ever be completed solved, we have Proline 21, G-1000, etc gee whiz technology, that can fly an entire holding pattern on auto pilot, but this has not been solved yet. This "concept" is not new, engines have needed fuel since the Model-T Ford was invented)
Lined up on wrong runway (takeoff or landing phase)
Landing fast/long
Bungled missed approach/go-around
CRM issues
operating a mechanically unairworthy/unsafe airplane when you should know better
penetrating severe weather/conditions when you probably had an alternate choice and should have known better
final category: All of the above
almost all incidents/accidents involving professional crews (corporate, military, airline) fall into the above categories. Well, probably ALL aviation accidents.
#122
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,923
IAD (Dulles) & KADW (Andrews Air Force Base)
They're only 30 miles part and both have North/South runways!*? It could be easy to confuse them on a visual approach?
MIA & FLL look similar?
It would be a biotch to think you were landing in SEA but actually land in SLC?
The list is endless but we get paid to PAY ATTENTION and land at the CORRECT one.
What's next? ... Maintenance "accidently " mounts a 727 tire on my 747? I mean "it could happen to anybody." They look really similar and they're right next to each other on the tire changing rack!
We all realize that the news media doesn't know much about aviation and frequently gets FACTS wrong but this article makes the pilot (Capt?) sound pretty confused?
Jumbo jet mistakenly lands at small Kansas airport
They're only 30 miles part and both have North/South runways!*? It could be easy to confuse them on a visual approach?
MIA & FLL look similar?
It would be a biotch to think you were landing in SEA but actually land in SLC?
The list is endless but we get paid to PAY ATTENTION and land at the CORRECT one.
What's next? ... Maintenance "accidently " mounts a 727 tire on my 747? I mean "it could happen to anybody." They look really similar and they're right next to each other on the tire changing rack!
We all realize that the news media doesn't know much about aviation and frequently gets FACTS wrong but this article makes the pilot (Capt?) sound pretty confused?
Jumbo jet mistakenly lands at small Kansas airport
#123
Ummm ... I thought the FAA determined that Cargo pilots don't get fatigued?
#127
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 121
Looking at the approach plate for RNAV GPS 19L into McConnell, I noticed that the IF/IAF, WITBA, calls for 4000ft MSL and is about 8 miles from and 2600ft AGL above Col Jabara. The airport lines up for almost a perfect 300ft/mile approach to a 6000x100ft runway that is proportionally the same as a 12000x200ft runway (19L is actually 12,000X150, but signage and lighting for 300ft wide). I can see how its possible that they could get sucked in to seeing that field and just breaking off the RNAV approach and landing visually.
The mind is a terrible thing.....
The mind is a terrible thing.....
If they picked up the KAAO PAPI and rabbit lights near WITBU, I can also see how they could get sucked off the approach. Especially since IAB would be 15 NM in the distance.
You may think it can't happen to you... You may be right. But it happened to someone and it is a worthwhile effort see how it happened and not just assume they were complete morons...
#128
I'm really surprised that the consensus seems to be "Could happen to anyone" attitude. I'm not sure a private pilot in his Cessna could explain landing at the wrong airport? They make comedy movies with scenes like this!
And - it might not have been in his FMS Data Base? Doesn't the "DreamLifter" fly there routinely? How could it not be in the data base?
Does that mean that all the analog airplanes we've collectively ever flow (early model 747's, 737's, 727's, DC-10's, DC-9's) couldn't land at the "right" airport.
You guys are screwing with me ... right?
And - it might not have been in his FMS Data Base? Doesn't the "DreamLifter" fly there routinely? How could it not be in the data base?
Does that mean that all the analog airplanes we've collectively ever flow (early model 747's, 737's, 727's, DC-10's, DC-9's) couldn't land at the "right" airport.
You guys are screwing with me ... right?
#130
I'm usually quick to jump on guys for speculating about accidents before the FACTS have been released. In this case no one was hurt, at least not that we know about yet anyway.
If ... "It could happen to anyone."
How come it's never happened to 99% of us (maybe more)? Should the 1% still have their licenses? It's been touched on very lightly here ... where was ATC? If the crew was, in fact, cleared for an Instrument approach ... why wasn't there a LOW ALTITUDE WARNING issued by ATC?
I can't think of a bigger screw-up (where people lived anyway).
Did they have to call in Boeing Test Pilots to get it out of there?
If ... "It could happen to anyone."
How come it's never happened to 99% of us (maybe more)? Should the 1% still have their licenses? It's been touched on very lightly here ... where was ATC? If the crew was, in fact, cleared for an Instrument approach ... why wasn't there a LOW ALTITUDE WARNING issued by ATC?
I can't think of a bigger screw-up (where people lived anyway).
Did they have to call in Boeing Test Pilots to get it out of there?
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post