Shy, have you ever flown night freight? Didn't you fly for Pinch-a-nickle at one time? Flying 3-4 legs in the middle of the night for 8 days is MUCH worse than flying 4 high-speeds in row for Uncle Phil. I've done both, so I know.

When your body sees the sun it adjusts to non-marsupial mode and it's hard to simply flip a switch and command your body to sleep. Many of our hotels are noisy and lack blackout curtains. Even then, daytime rest is NOT good rest.

If she had a long layover in SAT, it's irrelevant what she did during her time off as long as she recieved adequate rest prior to her duty. I don't know what that is for different people and it's none of my business as long as they show up ready for work. If not, call in fatigued without fear of retribution.

 

Dude you are a genius!!! I am going to add that to my tricks, hate when my card times out and I have to go back down to the desk.

 

I'm more of a believer of "you know what you signed up for." Anyone applying to UPS should know what their schedules are like and that the majority of flying is night. Humans aren't designed for long term back side of the clock operation. Even if FAR 117 was in play, you can't fix peoples' decisions about how and when they rest.

I haven't done UPS flying, the closest I have is living on the west coast and doing back to back transcon redeye trips. For these trips, sleep in/wake up late on the day of the redeye. But once the redeye is done and it's morning on the east coast, the first thing to do is shut the blinds in the hotel room, turn off all lights, and hit the bed. I can't imagine a pilot who has flown all night/awake would now consider jumpseating out to see someone else, unless this is the end of the trip and you're going home with no further duty for the pairing.

As for relevance of what you do on an overnight, it does matter. The NTSB will look at it, even if you got adequate rest. The day of the accident rest/sleep prior to reporting for duty outta RFD is pretty disturbing.

 

Sometimes your "rest" is "disturbed" I.E. Housekeeping knocking on your door even thought the "do not disturb" sign hangs on the door. Housekeeper banging the vacuum cleaner against the wall in the room next door or a myriad of other factors.

The way I see it, it shouldn't matter what's in the back, the playing field should be the same and I would guesstimate that this accident will result in the removal of the "cargo cut out".

 

Says volumes when the only people who support it are management, management pilots and K Street lobbyists. Everybody else knows it's absurd.

 

Airplane Movie Counter Point clip - YouTube

 

LOL!!!! That was well played sir!

For what it's worth I do support FAR 117 for cargo airlines as well. I just don't think it would have prevented this accident.

 

117 wouldn't have prevented Colgan either. Same mistakes could have been made on a shorter duty day.

 

Could someone please furnish a link to the Human Performance Group Chairman's Report?

 

The entire pairing that 1354 was built on violated 117.

In as much as no accident happens for only one reason to say that it wouldn't or would have prevented tragedy is shortsighted.